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Fatalism.
Welcome to the forum.
This is the fallacy of Greedy reductionism (and I am a reductionist, so do not accuse me of emergentism or dualism). The sentence that follows it is a non sequitor, and also a stolen concept fallacy since by declaring the inherent invalidity of rationality, you are invaliditing your own argument, which relies on premise-conclusion rationality. It's like the comsological argument, declaring that all things need a cause hence there must be an uncaused cause, a fallacy of self-refutation. Congratulations. It's not everyday that someone else does my work for me and refutes themselves hence saving me the time of doing it.
"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.
-Me
Books about atheism
Well spotted Deluded! In case anyone didn't realise, my post was a deliberate, and perhaps sarcastic, illustration of how such a reductionist position cannot be logically maintained. I am neither a fatalist or a "greedy" reductionist, and currently believe that consciousness cannot be reduced to mere brain activity. I do need to read more on this subject however, as I have only briefly looked at some of Nagel's work.
The greedy reductionist fallacy is not a criticism of reductionism but rather opponents of reductionism, who are making a fallacy of composition. What you are saying is analogous to saying:
1. The clicking on hyperlinks can be reduced to electrons being fired across LCD electron guns and photons through ethernet and fiberoptic cables. Therefore hyperlinks do not actually exist, only electrons and photons.
2. An atomic nuclei can be reduced to individual protons and electrons, which in turn can be reduced to quarks, which in turn can be reduced to bosons and fermions. Therefore, atoms do not actuallly exist, only bosons and fermions.
If you do not adopt the reductionist position, I would assume you are an emergentist. Which is fine. Just please for the love of no god tell me you are not a dualist.
For further reading on the clear and obvious reducible link between mental states and physical brain activity, consult the essay below, which was written by me (I hold a neuroscience qualification):
http://www.rationalresponders.com/vitalism_immaterialism_and_christian_dualism_have_long_since_been_debunked_response
"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.
-Me
Books about atheism
Deluded - your essay is certainly interesting. Some things there that I had read before, and some new stuff too. I do agree that consciousness is connected to the physical brain, yet contend that there must be something more than mere chemical processess in operation. What that something is has yet to be scientifically discovered, if it is even possible to discover it. A few questions are running through my mind right now.
How did consciousness arise in humans? Why is consciousness needed? If simple organisms and even more complicated ones, such as fish and birds, can survive perfectly well without higher-consciousness as found in humans, then why do humans possess higher-consciousness? When and why did the evolutionary process decide that simple organisms needed to appreciate art?
If consciousness is merely the result of chemical activity then, as we have noted, we are using a self-refuting argument. This discussion is the result of neural chemistry, over which we really have no control and therefore the need for philosophical discussion is made redundant, as atheists and theists alike are not really in control of their brain functions. Any statements regarding logic become questionable.
Opinions and corrections are most welcome.
It seems to me that one of the reasons evolution is successful is that it is brutally efficient. Anything that does not confer an advantage is supplanted by something that does. Things that have no advantage are selected against. Things that are disadvantageous are selected against even more brutally. If conciousness supplies no advantage, then there would be no evolutionary pressure to increase that capability. Yet here we are.
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The problem here is that because of our higher-consciousness we are capable of destroying ourselves as a race and all life on earth, and are in fact doing so environmentally. Other species that do not possess our consciousness are more 'evolutionary-safe', and are more abundant than humans. So I fail to see our consciousness as an advantage in that respect. It is a disadvantage. It can only be an advantage if humanity, using superior intelligence, manage to survive and escape our dying solar system and reach other life-sustaining systems. Which is very improbable indeed, to quote a famous athiest. I do enjoy Star Trek though!
Fortunately, the jury is still out regarding our complete self annihilation. Until this has actually happened, we cannot say whether conciousness is a disadvantage. We must let the process play itself out.
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Consciousness supplies a very, very large advantage. I would have thought that that much was quite obvious.
Welcome to the forums, bronzeman.
When you get a minute, we'd love it if you'd hop over to the General Conversation, Introductions and Humor forum and introduce yourself. We'd like to get to know you a little better!
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