Meanwhile, in Indiana, "pro-family groups" are credited with putting an end to "creating special protections for homosexuals and cross dressers." The hate crime bill died, not by a big margin, but still makes this state look like it still belongs in the days of the KKK. We need federal legislation on this, period, but I don't have much faith in it passing. Jesusland at it's best.

I've got to agree with Vastet (for once anyhow). Hate crime laws put different values on human life depending on race, sexual orientation, religious persuasion, etc. It seems silly that beating someone to death because they're gay should carry a stiffer sentence than committing the same crime for monetary gain or a simple thrill. I'd say in ALL instances violent criminals should be punished severely.

Several years ago in my hometown a young, white, heterosexual couple was shot execution style by 2 cranked out thugs. The crime was deamed a "thrill kill" by investigators. In other words the sole motivation was "for the fun of it". No hate crime law would fortify the sentences faced by the killers.

So why are the lives of the deceased (in this case) worth less than they would have been if they were gay or black? Why is this crime any less henious than those the "hate crime" laws were designed to address?

Mattshizzle -"And I think if someone does something to one of us for being an atheist that should count."

But it won't. There lies another problem with hate crimes laws. They're designed for certain groups. Sure, there are a few exceptions, but for the most part, crimes against atheist white guys aren't considered hate crimes no matter what the circumstances.

Speaking from experience again, while in highschool I lost 2 white friends (in seperate instances). It's very likely they made the mistake of walking while white in the wrong part of Milwaukee. Both were shot and killed in almost exclusively black neighborhoods. In only 1 of the murders were the killers caught and the possibility of the crime being racially motivated was never brought up in court or by the media.

Race related crimes against whites (statistically but not necessarily motivated by race) are more common than the inverse, and they tend to be much more violent. How often are these crimes prosecuted under hate crime laws? How many are actually racist crimes? Those of us who've lived in the "bad part of town" know better than to attribute black on white violence to opportunists alone.

http://ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs///homicide/race.htm

And the above stats don't take into consideration racially motivated crimes against whites that are treated as simple murder or assualt cases (back to my 2 highschool pals).

I know I'm putting myself out on a limb so before anyone tries to silence me with accusations of being a racist, trust me, I despise racism and bigotry in all its forms. I just think its important that we look at the issue objectively. 

I think hate crime laws are more about "setting an example" than about really combatting crime, to be honest. Everyone who a little knowledge of crime knows that in the states with the highest death penalty rate also has the highest rate of murders. So while I don't yet know the answer to if hate crimes really decreases it, I think they're hoping that if someone commits a crime based on hating someone for being gay, jewish, fat, white, or whatever the law says "you're really REALLY bad for doing it." For gay people, they're targets quite often. While I have to be honest I highly doubt that it keeps someone who really wants to harm someone who's gay from doing it, for us it's more about "raising the bar" so people will back the fuck off.

And being that I've lived in that area of town you're talking about I have to tell you I know where you're coming from. We've had so many people start shit with us for being white we end up having to prove we're not fucking racist to make THEM stop THEIR racism. We had a woman jerk her kid away from us telling her kid not to talk to white people. I had a lady tell me she was going to kick my dog. I have had people make up stories about us stealing their shit. We even had one woman walk up to my girlfriend while she was outside smoking, spit in her face and call her "pale face." (First time we hear THAT one, let me tell you). I know it happens. I've even gone so far as to try to get our state to try to create humanities and civics courses but they refuse to saying it won't help anything!

The only real answer to ending hatred is through talking to people, standing up for yourself and, of course, ending religious based persecution of individuals.  

Vastet, I agree wholeheartedly.  I was involved in the play "The Exonerated" by Jessica Blank and Erik Jensen.  This play was comprised of six true stories of people who had been unjustly convicted to death row.  One was the common-law wife of Jesse Tafero who was execute for a crime he did not commit.  He has the dubious legacy of being the man that Florida botched his execution.

From   http://docket.medill.northwestern.edu/archives/000944.php 

It took seven minutes to pronounce Jesse Tafero, the victim of the state’s most gruesome botched execution in 1990, dead. When the current was switched on at the start of his execution, a foot-long orange flame shot up from Tafero’s headpiece, and smoke and the smell of burning flesh filled the execution chamber. A former Miami Herald reporter who witnessed the execution wrote in the Palm Beach Post that Tafero’s chest was moving, that fire burst from the headpiece with the first two applications of the electrical current, and that he did not die until the third burst of current hit him. 

During rehearsals, the director brought in four gentlemen from the local area to tell their stories about being unjustly convicted of violent rimes and later exonerated.  Had any of them had a decent lawyer (they all had to use a public defender), they would not have been convicted.