pamphlets?
Posted on: November 4, 2007 - 10:39am
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pamphlets?
Hey guys, I remember a while back there was a thread on printing out pamphlets with like 20 one line questions to be distributed at various locations. Can anyone help me out and link me to it? I don't have the search function nor the time to sift through 50 pages of threads. 
I'm planning on printing out several of these pamphlets and leaving them in the walmart right next to Liberty University. (They think they own that place, that walmart even carries Liberty merchandise...*gag*) I was also thinking about having some on me at all times, so the next time I am ambushed I can hand them some to take home and think about. (I'm also going to put the url for that Godisimaginary.com website on there) Thanks 
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Is this 20 questions pamphlet the one you're looking for?
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/the_rational_response_squad_radio_show/freethinking_anonymous/10201
Yes! thanks. You went back 3 weeks to and found it for me? Awesome, thanks
If you and ISpeakMetal would like, I can attempt to assemble a nice three-fold pamphlet in scribus (publishing program) or something and give a link to a PDF file for ya. Post back and let me know
Your god's silence speaks loud and clear
Sure, that would be great. I plan on printing them out and leaving them around the walmart next to "liberty" "university". But I was hoping to put the address of www.godisimaginary.com on the pamphlets. Would you be able to do that?
I can put just about anything on them. I'll see if I can have a rough draft done by this evening.
Your god's silence speaks loud and clear
Ok I have the rough draft made, but some of the questions are different, and some of the formatting isn't perfect (so sue me
) but I think with a few minor changes it will be a nice looking brochure.
The style is a three-fold brocure. here is the link:
http://joshpatten.googlepages.com/20questions.pdf
Please post any changes that should be made in this forum.
Your god's silence speaks loud and clear
I love it!!!!! Thanks! I'm gonna print these out and drop them places next time I go out shopping.
While I don't have time right now to see if the pamphlet can be improved upon, I'll bump this thread to make it a little easier for others to check it out, while at the same time keeping myself able to track this thread without having to dig through days or weeks of posts.
Anyway, good luck, Medievalguy. Hope it goes well.
Good night, funny man, and thanks for the laughter.
That is a really awesome pamphlet! Thank you so much for making that!
Now I just need to figure out how to print a bunch of those without my dad noticing, and how and where to hand them out without getting bitch-slapped.
I really like that 20 questions brochure. Well done.
Wow I figured someone would have had a critique or suggested a change in something by now. Thanks for the compliments, I would like to make some more pamphlets but I'm terrible at coming up with ideas for that sort of thing. Once someone presents an idea and a rough framework (like the 20 questions forum topic), I can usually iron out something like the pamplet that is linked above. Throw some ideas out and I will crank out some pamphlets.
Your god's silence speaks loud and clear
Med,
I'm going to help you out and print/distribute them myself.
Great job!!! I printed one and won't file any lawsuits. May I suggest?: the inside left and right margins need to be made equal and the front cover images need to appear on the right and center panel.
Miracles don't exist. "Miracle" is a word given to a preposterous event that a theist considers dogmatically advantageous. Def. - Ecclesiastical sensationalism.
Not that I don't agree with everything in the pamphlet myself, but I do see some flaws in aproach. First, the intro, the ending, and the phrasing of a couple of questions seem condesending, and would put people on the defensive. It would be best to keep from putting people on the defensive for at least the first third or so of the pamphlet. I have my doubts as to whether many people would actually try the excersize beyond the first couple of questions as is. Even the title itself gives away that this pamphlet is probably opposing their prescious views. I would think about renaming it something to the effect of "Things you may have never thought about God" That way they are intrigued, not put-off. I think it would be advantagious to ask some of the least offensive questions first, to let the person really do some thinking before they get to the ones that are likely to upset them. Reason being, if they have tried to answer a few questions, and had some critical thoughts in a way they haven't in the past, then they may be more likely to entertain later questions that strike a nerve. I'm not trying to piss in anyones wheaties here, just trying to be constructive.
An example "...or, more likely, point out our logical fallacies.." This just seems to perpetuate the "arrogant Atheist" stereotype (even though there's a lot of truth to the likelyhood of them using fallacies) One more example, the 2nd - 4th questions all assume that people believe that they will get whatever they pray for. I don't think many people do, even though at least one passage in the bible does claim that (Mark 11:24.) I can already see that more than likely their answer for #2 is going to explain #3 and 4 in their mind. Another is the phrasing of "your church" this automatically makes it seem like the author has a bias against the church (I know we do, not the point.)
I think overall this is an excellent concept, but IMHO it needs some work. If I have time later I'll chime back in with some alternative suggestions.
"They always say the same thing; 'But evolution is only a theory!!' Which is true, I guess, and it's good they say that I think, it gives you hope that they feel the same about the theory of Gravity and they might just float the f**k away."
I agree with all but 2 of your points Tony.
First, the reason why I (ab)use Mark 11:24 is for them to see they are cherry picking prayer to mold it to what actually fits reality. If I had a contract with a person that stated "If you ask for anything, you will get it" then I would expect that if I asked for the Nile River to flow through my backyard that it would be done. This may sound extreme, but it is not unreasonable for me to expect it because it was promised to me.
Secondly, though it could be worded differently, most christians don't see donating to the church as "donating to god." They donate to the church to help the church perform the work that god wants them to do. Perhaps I should word that question "Why do you give money to your church" or "Why do you put money into the offering plate?"
I don't know of any other way to do the introduction because if I did not specify that those types of answers could not be used then those would be the answers to just about every question. If you could suggest another way I'm all ears.
The ending is a bit arrogant and needs to be redone. I think something like this would do:
"If you believe you were able to answer all of these questions without making any rationalizations of excuses, or invoking anything supernatural, you should immediately seek a non-believer or skeptic near you and share your answers with them. Perhaps you will enlighten them." or something like that.
As for the order of the questions, as long as the god a bible questions are kept separate, it really doesn't matter what order they are in for me. I am open to suggestions on the order.
Remember, the copy that's posted there was a rough draft. The next one should be a release candidate.
Your god's silence speaks loud and clear
Alright, I changed a few things to make a second rough draft.
Summary:
Changed margins on left side (thanks nullusdeus)
Changed the front cover images location (again thanks nullusdeus)
Changed money/church question wording
changed order of questions (thanks TonyZXT)
changed the ending to be less arrogant (again thanks TonyZXT)
Changed inside question mark image becuse it was causing bleed-through to the front cover.
Changed front cover question to "20 questions you have probably never asked yourself" (Again thanks TonyZXT)
Fixed a few formatting issues
Here is the link:
http://joshpatten.googlepages.com/20-questions-second-rough-draft.pdf
Remember, this is the second rough draft. The release candidate should be next.
Your god's silence speaks loud and clear
Nice job dude. I like the concept and execution.
As a designer, you should be well aware that compliments generally precede some pain in the ass suggestions, so here goes my constructive criticism.
1. There are some widows/orphans (single word lines at the ends of paragraphs). If you tighten/loosen up on the tracking slightly (+/-10 in Quark or InDesign), you can either pop the word back into the paragraph, or pop another word into the last line.
2. You might use the back cover for the contact info.
3. The question mark image is a bit close to the text.
That's all--take it as you will. Again, nice work overall.
Magilum:
1. I see what you are talking about and was able to fix the first column (The one that looked the worst). The second and third columns weren't so simple. No matter what spacing I used I would still have orphaned text on a few lines.
2. Are you talking about simple name and email blanks where a person could write in their info if they so desired (to have fundies with pitchforks in their front yard)? If so, I have put them on this 3rd rough draft.
3. Fixed
If anyone is wondering, the middle of the first page is actually the back of the pamphlet when folded properly.
Here's the file:
http://joshpatten.googlepages.com/20-questions-RC.pdf
Your god's silence speaks loud and clear
I think the criteria in the first column are unjustified and will spoil any effect of the pamphlet. You want people to explain their supernatural beliefs without appealing to anything supernatural? That makes no sense. "Satan created other religions to trick us" is logically possible and doesn't seem any more ridiculous than the basic beliefs in god's existence and so on. "God is eternal" is a flawed argument for reasons that are too technical to get into in the pamphlet, but none of the 20 questions involve the first cause argument anyway.
The second criteria is more fair, but to a believer it will seem like you are arbitrarily imposing rules that disallow the correct answer. Again, the flaws of "We can never understand God's will" can be argued, but it is not necessarily an unworkable position.
Perhaps a better way would be to give a few sentences asking how much the reader has ever reallly thought about his/her beliefs and challenging them to take this quiz. Then after all the questions there could be a section asking how many of the reader's answers took this form or that, and whether those are really convincing arguments. This could be integrated with the existing final paragraph.
I don't mean to sound overly critical - I like this idea and I appreciate people spending their time on it. My goal is to help make it as effective as possible.
Josh,
I definately like it better now. I think it could be refined even more if we brainstormed for better questions. The ones in there now are good, but there'e always room for improvement. I guess it depends on how soon you want to be able to print them, and how much effort/time you can put into it.
I think a question about stories that pre-date the bible (like Noah's arc, etc.) The question could be:
"If the bible is the unerring word of god, why do some stories (like Noahs arc) match others that predate the bible by up to 1000 years?"
Also a question about the distinctly different lineages of jesus in Luke chapter 3, and in Matthew chapter 1. This to me is a HUGE proof that the bible is full of it, and would cast doubt in any reasonable person. Something like:
"Did you know that the lineages of Jesus in Mark:1, and Luke:3 are completely different? How can this be if the bible is inspired?
Another good one that would actually cause a believer to take out their bible and notice a plagiarism within the bible for themselves, is a comparison of II kings 19 and Isaiah 37. They were written at different times, by different authors according to most biblical scholars, yet they are exactly the same (bottom of the page)
"Why are two chapters (II kings 19 and Isaiah 37) nearly identical when they are understood by biblical scholars to be written at different times, by different authors?
I'm sure there are more I'm not thinking of right this second, but we can brainstorm more if you want to go to the effort of changing it. Let us know.
"They always say the same thing; 'But evolution is only a theory!!' Which is true, I guess, and it's good they say that I think, it gives you hope that they feel the same about the theory of Gravity and they might just float the f**k away."
O.K.F.M.D.O.A: I have difficulty coming up with good content/questions etc. So I will need some solid suggestions for the intro.
TonyZXT: Any replacement questions would be welcome.
If someone can come up with solid content for these pamplets I can whip up a design in a few hours.
Your god's silence speaks loud and clear
Tony,
Eh, I liked most of your first suggestions, but I don't think those questions would be very effective. Too many questions that require previous knowledge of the Bible, or seem to necessitate too much actual work to understand might turn people off. I think it's best asking mostly questions that are broader and can be understood by most people with a basic knowledge of Christianity. This pamphlet should raise questions mostly about the core message and nature of the religion rather than about random, esoteric things in the Bible. We can't really hope to change the people who care to study the Bible and still believe. Those people will believe no matter what questions we raise. But the default Christians who never really think about their religion, their sense of reason might be somewhat stirred by this pamphlet.. We need to stick primarily to questions that people can ponder with their general ideas of Christianity, I think.
I love it, but i'm not so sure about the "contact info" section on the back. I was hoping to leave it anonymously. Filling that out seems like i'm just asking to have my box flooded with hate mail, and possibly be tracked down and attacked. But then I guess I could just leave it blank. Just a thought. But hey, as for question ideas, isn't there a posted thread in the Atheist vs theist room titled "theists answer these!" Just my thoughts. But Awesome work so far!
I can always make one with or without contact info, but the thing kinda looks bare with nothing on the back.
You could always use a pen name and register a different gmail address or something
If there really is anything I need to change as far as approach and questioning goes, let me know.
Your god's silence speaks loud and clear
Yeah , you're probably right about keeping it simple.
As far as the back of the pamphlet goes, it could always be used for a nice list of websites that people can go to if they're curious about any doubts they may have as a result of the questions.
"They always say the same thing; 'But evolution is only a theory!!' Which is true, I guess, and it's good they say that I think, it gives you hope that they feel the same about the theory of Gravity and they might just float the f**k away."
A list of sites it will be. Anyone care to chime in with a few?
Your god's silence speaks loud and clear
Well there are already two on there, the "why won't god heal amputees" and "god is imaginary.com" websites. We could put a link to the RRS, Dawkins' site, and any other good science/evolution explaining sites.