Does anyone else still feel guilty sometimes?
I can't help it, sometimes I just feel that what I am doing is wrong, even though I know deep down it is right. For example, I drive around Lynchburg defiantly flying several anti-religion bumperstickers, and yet sometimes I feel that trying to shake peoples' faith is just wrong. But thats just my illogical emotional side. My conscience logical side recognizes that this is none other than leftover bagage from being a semi-fundie xtian. Its just hard sometimes since I know religion is a dangerous and harmful belief system, and that the world would be MUCH better off without it, but this little voice inside my head says "no, no, religion is good, god is love, don't think, don't turn from the 'light'." Anybody else have this irrational guilt now and then despite knowing you're doing the right thing? (I hesitate to post this since I know fundies read the stuff in this forum, but know this fundies: emotions are not proof of anything. This periodic guilt is nothing but mental scaring from being raised in a lie. It doesn't mean that there is a god telling me to believe)
(On a side note, why is everything god "tells" people nowadays boring shit like "He just wants to let you know that he loves you? It'd be sooo much cooler if he was telling that I must save France from her enemies like back in the good o'l days.)
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Since i have never had this christian upbringing....the answer is no, not an ounce not one little itsy bitsy bit at all, not guilt. However i can see from where you are coming.
I cannot. If anything, I would feel guilty not doing something.
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Well i agree with you for me, but i can understand someone who has come from that type of background in which guilt plays a large part of belief, guilt is a strong emotion usually and is hard to get rid of, especially if it becomes part of someones personality.
I remember a quote I heard from Brian one time that really stuck with me and I use it in many situations. The way I look at it is this, "If I told you the sky was made out of purple spaghetti sauce would you correct me?"
I don't feel like I have to go around being a prick to every theist I meet but If they want to discuss something or make a proclamation about anything, I feel that I am doing the right thing by simply correcting them. We all know how much incorrect information we hear, from Bible verse's to statistics, even to incorrect information about Evolution. Well It is our duty, not just for us but for the future of humankind to make sure the facts are set straight. I mean look at the progress (some of humanity is making). I really feel like we are entering an age of mixed enlightenment and delusion. Think about how much further we would be advanced if we didn't have people burned at the stake or if entire cultures weren't wiped off the face of the earth by religious delusion. Where are the Aztecs?? Where are countless Greek and Egyptian artifcacts? Where is the Fucking Library or Alexandria!!! All ruined by delusional people. And I myself will be damned to let that happen again. We need to move foreward and start learning from the mistakes of the past, I have no guilt. I merely want to start the healing and educational process for the future of mankind.
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Yeah, I understand that. I'm 18 and still in my fundie minister father's house, so sometimes, when I do or say or think something against Christianity, this little part of me rebels. It pisses me off so much. All these smug Christians always told me that Jesus is in all of our hearts and deep down everyone knows that he's the way, and despite all my efforts to depart from that way of thinking, they sort of made it true just by drilling it into me.
I wasn't a theist long, but I certainly was one early, so early that it became a part of my subconscious, like saying please and thank you and sneezing into my arm instead of my hands. I still find myself praying sometimes when things get rough, and it's sucks, because I know how futile it is, but when I was a kid, I was fucking promised that God answers prayers, so I still test it out in spite of myself on occasion. It's not easy to forget nearly two decades of conditioning, even if my logical side knows it's no good for me.
No. Of course, I don't tend to feel guilty about much. I take measured action and don't look back.
"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer
As scary as it sounds, I've learned that logic works, and I stand by it. This isn't just about religion. I've baffled many people simply by doing the most logical thing in a situation where others might take an easier road.
Fighting religion is very tough, and yet it's logical. In many parts of the world, I would be in prison for what I've written. In some places, I'd be dead. This fact alone should be a mandate for those of us in a place where we can fight.
When I fire someone, I do it because I know that the business as a whole will be better without them. Even so, I feel guilty sometimes, because I know I'm making one person's life more difficult. In the end, I can only hope that the person will learn from their mistakes and do a better job with their next employer.
That's pretty much how I feel about "taking religion away" from people. I feel bad for the pain that it causes some people, but I hope that they will be happier after the pain goes away.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
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Yes I do,and I was actually thinking about it today. Sometimes there's still that little part that says"what am I doing, or maybe religion's right" I usually manage to squash them,but sometimes there's always that nagging fear of hellfire in the back of your mind..
I suppose old habbits just die hard. I still can't look around a room if someone's praying.It's drilled into me.
Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible
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Why should you feel guilty about telling the truth?
It is the same false guilt you have when you tell a kid Santa isnt real. Sure you can see the pain on their faces but you know that if they discard it they will be better off.
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No, I don`t feel guilty by it, bored yes, but not guilty
Can you imagine what would have happened if someone managed to convince dubya that jeebus didn`t exist before he though he heard voices in his head telling him to invade a few countries?
Morte alla tyrannus et dei
I have never felt guilty about it. Not in the slightest. That would be like feeling guilty because you graded someones math quiz and they got a 1 out of 100.
[edit: On second though If I were the teach and my student got a 1 out of 100, I might feel a little guilty about it. However unless you were the one who convinced them there was a god and change their life, I don't see why guilt would ever occur]
Sounds made up...
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No, I am not angry at your imaginary friends or enemies.
I don't feel guilty. I for the most part feel pissed off how it perverts people's minds about what is right and wrong.
Homosexual marriage and stem cell research to name just two.
I also frequently feel depressed how drenched humanity is by old, utterly ridiculous ideas about a god in the sky that gives a crap if someone lusts after a beautiful woman or what not.
"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci
I don't think we're necessarily capable of taking religion away from people. Only rational thought is capable of that. And I don't feel the least bit guilty promoting rational thought.
Nobody I know was brainwashed into being an atheist.
Why Believe?
Do I ever feel guilty about placing a "stumbling block" in front of a theist? hmmmm, let me think about that for a sec.... Not one bit. If anything I feel the need to protect myself from the theists around here.
When your teen daughter is threatened with a bullet to the head for her atheism, when you find yourself in a headlock from a rabid new convert, you tend to loose any guilt you might have had for messing up their (not so) tidy theistic world.
Im just glad I dont have to work outside the home. I'm not sure I could deal with the BS these people spew.
We must favor verifiable evidence over private feeling. Otherwise we leave ourselves vulnerable to those who would obscure the truth.
~ Richard Dawkins
No, I don't feel guilty. Then again, I do tend to bite my tongue more often than most, not because I'm afraid of offending people, but because I don't want to give people the wrong impression. After all, it's not likely I'll covince anyone if I come off as a know-it-all asshole. Even if I was more straightforward and blunt, though, I still think I know myself well enough that I wouldn't feel the slightest bit of guilt.
Also, I was raised in an Evangelical church, and throughout my childhood I considered myself a Xtian, but I didn't believe for emotional reasons, I believed because I thought I actually had conclusive proof ("speaking in tongues". So, I never really felt any emotional guilt after I decided that this particular sky fairy didn't exist.
The unexamined life is not worth living - Socrates
I feel different with every encounter. If someone is throwing some religious belief or 'smart' bible verse at me to feed their ego or make them look like a holy know it all, then that ticks me off and I am liable to bite back a bit, with no guilt.
When I feel 'guilty' or bad is when I talk with the sweet, nice gramma types that have known nothing but their beliefs all their lives. That is all they have to hang on to, I feel like if I try to reason with them it would crush them, break their heart, make them feel bad....I guess with some I am a bit softy.
I, like Hamby, have a need from time to time to fire an employee. It does come down to what is right for the business..maybe I need to treat some of those theists the same as some of my employees except do what is best for mankind...
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Yeah, I sometimes still feel guilty, but the Christians in my life are slowly curing me of that. Dealing with the lies, the snooping, the denial--frankly, I'm sick of it. I call "bullshit" on their stupid claims.
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I had those guilty feelings for awhile, lingering traces of a former christian. but over time, they just went away after it became so obvious how illogical the whole show was.
I don't feel guilty. Would you want your life to be based on a lie just because someone was feeling bad about telling you the truth? Just like many things in life, it can hurt - bad - but I'd rather hear the truth than have my feelings spared.
Your sense of "guilt" would indicate to me that you are probably just a decent guy who is able to empathise with his ideological adversaries. You don't hate them you don't just share their delusions.
Speaking for myself, I find that being an atheist who was formerly a dedicated Christian causes some inner conflicts on the emotional level. It's not an easy thing to erase the effects of religious brainwashing.
Now I'm going to go and distract myself from those bothersome religious urges by kicking back and watching South Park. That should correct everything.
You're absolutely right - I personally know Medievalguy and he is just that - a real decent guy! He hasn't been an atheist for very long and probably hasn't had enough time to rid himself of tentative "guilt feelings".
Miracles don't exist. "Miracle" is a word given to a preposterous event that a theist considers dogmatically advantageous. Def. - Ecclesiastical sensationalism.
Yes I did for a while but mostly about the satan more so than the god. Other than the fact that you have been brainwashed into believing the nonsense, fear, guilt would you consider it may be possible that you may be feeling it's wrong because of how you shake their faith rather than the fact that you do shake their faith? I'm no expert but maybe your subconsciously feeling it's really time to change the how but not the reason. You know they have to be corrected but how you go about correcting them and the timing may need a change. Just a thought.
Hey, what's happened? I wrote a post and I don't find it here anymore, I'll try to ask you another time what I'm concerned about.
Someone talk about a sense of guilty and others say that he shouldn't have any sense of guilty. I think that we have to consider the different points and try to assume the right point of view. Do you really believe that it would be good to destroy the faith of a woman that cannot reach your cultural point of view, your intelligence and that most probably is going to dead soon?
I know that I'm talking about an extreme situation, but I would like to know what would your behaviour be in this case.
Thank you
I have some thoughts on this but could you give some clarification to your question? I'm assuming your saying she won't be able to accept live without god as you can lack belief in any culture... Is this a safe assumption? Also, why do you think she can't do this? Is it because you think she is unable or simply because she will not live long enough to do so?
Dear Shelley, I'm sorry, I didnt' explain my idea well.
This person is an old person (I hope that she will live 150 years but it is not most likely), she had some brain problems and now she is not so brilliant as she was before the coma.
At the moment she has a great faith in god (she didn't possess that faith before). Should I try to destroy her faith? Would it be a good action and why?
I'm glad I asked now because I was intending to just respond generically. Now, however, I'll do both.
Generically, I would say something. I don't think people deserve to believe lies regardless of how comforting and for all you know this person could either 1. actually live a long life -or- 2. be in severe internal conflict in fear of eternal damnation.
However, obviously this is a personal friend. IMO, is "deconverting" her going to help the overall cause of ending theism? Probably not. Is a last minute "deconversion" much different than an eleventh hour proclamation of belief? Is the time even there anyway? Probably not. It's not like you can just walk in, tell her there is no god, and she'll thank you for letting her know moments before she dies.
I can't judge how likely she is to understand, nor am I a doctor. With cognitive issues you may just impose more stress on her. I hate to say it, but if the situation is dire I might just do nothing. Clearly she's turned to the faith for comfort in this dying process. If you do say something I would be prepared to provide an alternative comfort to her - such as lots of your personal time.
I have a feeling a few people are going to respond negatively to this. I just want to clarify that I'm not saying we should simply not tell people the truth to spare their feelings. I'm simply saying that if this was my mom, daughter, or whatever I should have said something during her life (don't take that personally) but right now I see more benefit in spending those last moments with them.
Dear Shelley,
thank you for your kind answer, I agree with every part of your post. In particular when you say "I should have said something during her life" because is what I did before the coma, I was tryIng to take her to my vision of Buddhism/Agnosticism, she loved the book about Happiness of the Dalai Lama, but you know how life is hard and our brain is a small and weak thing...
Once again thank you
PS I'm a man, not a "she"
I only feel guilty if I go too far in my enthusiasm to blow up a theist comment or position and end up making the theist uncomfortable. Many theists really feel they need that faith security blanket and I don't consider it my place to say whether they are ready to go forward without it or not. So when I yank it away from them, even temporarily, I feel like I've been mean. Keep in mind that most of the theists I meet are of the moderate, mostly rational variety that often haven't given their beliefs any degree of serious thought. When it comes to a fundy, hell, look out eyes, here comes the light!
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