The Religious Act of Killing A Bald Eagle
Offline I was just reading an update on the news story about the Arapaho man who is seeking permission to kill a Bald Eagle for the tribe's Sun Dance Ceremony. He was arrested in 2005 for killing an eagle and now that eagles are no longer on the Endangered Species list, he's fighting for permission to "use" an eagle for...religious purposes.
Here's the article: http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=19340
Apparently, the wings and feathers...and sometimes the tail fan is needed for the ceremony. The tribe was offered eagle carcasses, but this was not good enough, it seems. The tribe argued that the carcasses received were unfit and it can sometimes take years for them to receive more (I can't believe there's such a long waiting list). Not only that, but hunting and killing the animal is a religious act. So, taking an already deceased animal just won't do.
I'm so afraid that the Arapahos will win. Because of religious freedom and white man's guilt about the atrocities committed against Native Americans.
Take a look at those Biblical Old Testament passages when people were sacrificing animals to please god, for whatever reason. Those acts are considered barbaric by today's standards. How is killing an eagle any different?
Your thoughts?
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It's hard for me to type and hold back vomit at the same time.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Sickening, I hope the atheists organize something against this. We could be on the same side as right-wing fundies for once.
Morte alla tyrannus et dei
I am pretty indifferent. Let me double check on that. Yeah, indifferent is the emotion. Eagle, crow, sparrow, they're all flying rats to me.
"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer
If the tribes start killing these birds for ceremony will that drive them back onto the endangered species list?
How many tribes / how many ceremonies each / how many birds ?
Animals are getting killed by humans every moment for all sorts of reasons, I don't see a particular reason to single this tribe out unless their activity means the eagle will be pushed back towards extinction.
To be clear, I don't have anything against killing an animal. I have something against doing it for a stupid reason. There are a damn lot of us humans running around, and there are a lot of animals going extinct. if we drive enough of them to extinction, we'll have to eat potatoes or starve. You know where that got the Irish.
With as many people as there are, if we start allowing people to kill animals for one stupid reason, we're going to have to allow it for many stupid reasons.
That would be stupid.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Hamby's first two lines of his last comment, it's mostly what my point is. It's not the act of killing an animal. It's the reason it's being done.
When a cow is killed, we use to whole animal...for food and clothing. We don't kill a cow just for use of his foot...for some ridiculous religious ceremony.
Not only that, but the Bald Eagle, while not an endangered species, is still a protected species. It's a crime to injure or kill it.
I'm also looking at it from a "birder's" perspective. I want to see eagles thrive. They've made a tremendous comeback in the last decade (there's an eagles nest within a mile from my house). While eagles have made a comeback, they're not in abundance, like say, the Canada Goose or Mallard or something.
The bird should still be protected.
In my original post, I mentioned animal sacrifices in the Bible. Today, you wouldn't find any follower of the Bible sacrificing animals to the lord. It's just not acceptable...and damn creepy.
How is killing an eagle to use its wing for a religious ceremony any different?
Well, Native Americans did get a complete and utter hosing by the white man in the early years of this nation. They were nearly driven to extinction. So I think the guilt is warranted.
To take the Native American's side for a minute - I'd argue that it was the white man that caused the eagle to go on the Endangered Species List in the first place due to habitat destruction and pesticide use.
Nobody I know was brainwashed into being an atheist.
Why Believe?
Would folks feel better if the Indians promised to fry the bird up afterwards in a fine fricassee?
I'm torn between my instinctive disregard for religious traditions, and the potential humor in watching jingoists squirm as the superficial avian embodiment of their country is molested by the people the land was stolen from. Oh, and it's a beautiful animal, etc., I say on my way out for a burger.
I just wrote a little longer and slightly witty reply but for some reason it didn't post.
One of my family members is Native American. On the face of it, I think this Wyoming guy is full of shit and/or trying to get attention through the courts. The Eagle is a sacred animal it is supposed to be the communicator between man and heavenly spirits and it can't really fly up with a message like a chicken (with it's head cut off).
The only thing that could possibly happen in a Sun Dance involves Eagle feathers - not killing the bird. However there is a component of self-multilation.
I could be wrong and things could be very different in the West but I am a little skeptical here.
Thanks Leda for clarifying that the Bald Eagle is still protected. There really is no argument in my mind. No killing of this bird for anyone.
However, to take up the theoretical argument in the case where the bird is plentiful and a few birds killed for traditional indigenous cermonies won't impact its population in a significant way:
Yes, it' absolutely rediculous, irrational indigenous beliefs should be tackled too, christianity certainly is not the only irrational game in town. However, we might want to consider the context of the groups we lobby. Indigenous peoples all over the world have been marginalised, near genocided, by western nations. From the point of view of indigenous tribes, attacking their ceremonies because of a few birds would probably be seen by them as just more racism. Certainly, just singling out indigenous tribes would be racist. It would have to be a movement against all irrational killing of animals. More sickening than indigenous ceremonies sacrificing animals is game fishing and bird shooting - killing and maiming for the sport of it.
We also have to weigh up priorities. Are indigenous ceremonies anywhere near as abusive as telling children they are going to burn in hell if they sin? (genuine question here, I don't know the answer). We should be targetting the biggest enemies, especially the ones that seek to use state power to inflict their belief on the rest of us.
ever read
Chief Seattle quotes, ?
I like that guy .... and many indian ideas ....