Has this happened to you?
Posted on: January 12, 2008 - 12:57pm
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Has this happened to you?
Do you get labeled and dismissed as being crazy when you bring up valid points about how religion is vile and destructive to theists? I made some great points based on stuff I have read by Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins & Christopher Hitchens to a theist preacher (which is a long time friend) and he said I needed to see a therapist because I have gone crazy. WTF!?
Do they do this to you??? Or is it just me? lol
"Chlorinating the Gene Pool"
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Lol. No I've never heard that one before, but my whole family is convinced that I am just angry at god. I throw every good argument I can muster at them for why I don't believe and it just bounces off their thick skulls. They think I just need anger management classes, which I guess might be colse to the therapy you were prescribed.
Thats cute.
Ahhh...
yeah, he said I was angry as well as crazy. LOL Yeah, they do have thick skulls.
With someone that established in the xtian faith/dogma, it's probably better to start out w/ smaller inconsistencies or issues w/ theist logic first and then work your way toward the bigger picture such as: Religion has been very destructive as an ideology.
As a preacher, he has his sense of self worth/self esteem, security, means of income all tied up in the xtian ideology. No one gives "all that" up over coffee and a discussion of Sam Harris. Baby steps for a Baby mentality.
Unfortunately.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
George Orwell
Ya AI is right in that there are much better ways to argue against someone in his position. You might also want to learn up on the socratic method. Look up Todd Allen Gates on youtube. He can teach you methods to use on someone like your preacher friend.
Thats cute.
Thanks for the tips! Yeah, that's true...he does have his entire life wrapped up in that belief system. The conversation didn't start out heavy and then he immediately blasted me with the "then where do you get your morals from" and "do you have moral absolutes now?" saying that if I didn't believe in a god then pretty much, "anything goes" and I was trying (though not successfully because I'm not well versed on that) to explain and it got heavy and I got into the destructive nature of religion out of self defense.
I will look up Todd Allen Gates definitely! I want to be able to stand my ground better next time.
"Chlorinating the Gene Pool"
The "You're crazy" and "You're angry" defense is the most common. It's not unrelated to the "They're not really people" defense that the Judge recently upheld with regard to Guantanamo detainees. For non-critical thinkers, it's much easier to stop thinking about someone if we can dismiss real issues by not thinking of them as completely human.
Labelling someone as crazy reduces them to sub-human. Notice how you never stop to have an in-depth discussion with schizophrenics digging through trashcans? You probably don't even look them in the eye... ever. I'm not saying this is an inapropriate reaction to genuine crazy people. I'm trying to illustrate the kind of shift human brains do when they move someone from "Person" to "Nonperson."
Christians either consciously or unconsciously try to move atheists out of the person category so they don't have to think about us anymore. After all, if they thought, they might have to admit we have a point.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Yeah, that seems to be exactly what he's doing because when i cited great sources of information for him he wouldn't even look at it. He said that he didn't have time to look at such blasphemy and he had read the works of Nietzche a while back and that should have been sufficient.
See, he said that the world was "christian" without proof...i stated some statistics and that was ignored. Then, I presented a very long list of very well known "pillars" of society both from today and day past (such as Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Edison, Thomas Paine, etc etc) who were outspoken atheists because he made a statement that said that atheists were simply less intellectual. He wouldn't look at that list either. So, he is simply sticking his head in the sand while making random accusations. For example, a really funny one he said was...I had said that there is evidence for evolution and none for creation...he laughed and said,"YES THERE IS!" And I said besides Genesis, what?!?!? He NEVER ANSWERED! I wasn't surprised.
...sigh...
"Chlorinating the Gene Pool"
Crazy? Not yet.
Angry,psycotic,damaged,uninformed,godless,sadistic (alhough my gf likes that) are a few of the things I have been called however.
Oh, I almost forgot, asshole. :D
Morte alla tyrannus et dei
I've also heard it said that atheists are angry. But it seems to me that Christians are angry too.
I was involved in a discussion on a USA Today message board about religion. There were several of us atheists there challenging Christianity. But in this case it seemed that the Christians were the ones who were the angriest. In a discussion between two theists one said of us atheists, "I guess I never realized how MANY there are and how few of us."
I think our numbers threatened them and is why they were so pissed off.
Frosty's coming back someday. Will you be ready?
It is not completely related to topic but I had flashbacks from the past then I read topic name so what the hell:
Flashback number 1.
Me and my friend went to Church once ( it was time of Primary School and I still occasionally participated in religious life ) and my friend confessed that last time he was in Church one year ago. Second later a priest was chasing him around church with this strange staff... They use it to call next person standing in confession queue. Today I still remember how priest was shouting -“You son of Satan!!” - trying to hit my friend with that staff. Ah youth time...
Flashback number 2.
Primary school, religion lesson and me asking catechises teacher: Are you really think I am going to believe that human, sheep and T Rex lived in same time ? ( I know I was cheeky bastard ).
Flashback number 3.
High school. Sad smile of priest Mark when I was asking hard questions about faith far more complicated then that about sheep and T Rex. He clearly knew that I was playing with him. ( I know I was sadistic, cheeky bastard ).
Flashback number 4.
Last year, spring(?), I was putting my my stuff inside car ( I was working as IT Support Engineer ) then like from underground ( I felt no sulphur smell so I am not sure ) priest showed up and he asked my with angry voice: why am not I waiting at home for his visit ?
It was some kind of Christian Eve related to his birth and Three Kings...I took a look back and said something like: I have to time for you preacher. When I was closing car doors I could hear his :”I hope you will some day accept Jesus in your hearth !”
I think burst of my laugh blend in sound of starting engine.
Hmm does it mean I am intolerant, angry and not able to understand basic stuff about faith ? For sure if it comes to religion bullshit.
Ah, yes once somebody told me that I have no hearth.
Ecrasez l'infame!
Yes, most of the time that any aquaintance finds out my atheism, I am considered insane or senile (age 60).
...and in contrast if you were to say that you were a devout christian they would respond that you were a wise elder. amazing...
"Chlorinating the Gene Pool"
You got that right
So, you go to your preacher buddy, yeah, the one who has apparently made it his life's work to spread and support his brand of religion, and tell him that the organization he belongs to is "vile and destructive". He lashes back.
I fail to see a WTF moment here.
Susan
LOL, true...
But, the conversation didn't start like that...it ended up there. My real question was that even in the light of the obvious reaction on his part, how many of us have actually been labeled "psychotic" or "crazy" (requiring therapy) as a result of such conversation. because if you think about it...we have dissagreements every day about everything else and a difference in opinion (even in heated debates) about anything else does not end in someone being labeled mentally ill. lol Well, not usually...lol
"Chlorinating the Gene Pool"