Does modern xianity come from the bible?
I'm sure most of us have heard people talk about modern christianity not being supported in the bible. I stumbled accross a link that talks about exactly that. I know I've heard things like going to heaven/hell being a gnostic belief, or that the trinity is a more modern construct than the original christianity in Jesus' time. Here's the link, I found it pretty interesting, but I have to wonder if anything they claim is accurate:
http://www.ccg.org/english/s/p208.html
"They always say the same thing; 'But evolution is only a theory!!' Which is true, I guess, and it's good they say that I think, it gives you hope that they feel the same about the theory of Gravity and they might just float the f**k away."
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I started out agreeing but then soon realized this is more "god of abe hipe" and more of the same old arguing over dogma crap. It sucks. All the redefining of Xian terms etc is pointless. Sure there is alot of Xian history there but the site is pro Xain , and any such "religion" is basically crap, even tho there is wisdom that can be pulled from it.
The anti Gnostic slant made it obvious that this site is just more biased religion dogma preaching.
The Gnostics beliefs are so varied that it's more of just a "lable of the losers" in the battle of what Christianity became. Studying the Gnostics , even briefly, is quit telling regarding this Xain crap we are still under.
I find alot more I can agree with in the Gnostic writtings than what became the bible canon, yeah why is that ? ( $$$ )
I have my own Jesus myth; fuck everyone elses, Jesus was an early dawning of Atheism, like Buddha. I like to think there were "ancient" wise men with common sense. Science has taught us so much that we truly live in a different "mind set" than those of the past, tho we share our human nature.
Give them old miserable fucks a break , take what was good and wise, and move on. Jesus/Buddha said , this is god/heaven, ye are gods, .... cool . Now what ya gonna do with your freedom ??? We are on our own, "condemned to be free".
WE ARE GOD, sorry , no sky daddy, get over it .... hold hands , parties help.
Atheism Books.
I would be careful with specific language. I know what you're trying to say, but it isn't entirely accurate. The Gnostics were, in fact, the first "Christians". Or rather, a better term would be "Hellenized Jews" - because that is exactly what Christians are today. So the Bible does in fact support modern Christianity. Pauline theology is also very Gnostic, to the point where it is clear in Galatians and in Corinthians that Paul is probably speaking to other Christian Gnostics. And it is also important to remember that there was not just one original sect of Christianity (Christians may speculate all they want, but the evidence is very much against this concept) - Christianity has been splintered ever since it originated, probably from Essene thought and practice, which is why John is always considered an Essene and why the Essenes are never talked of in a poor (or any!) manner in the New Testament, even though we know they existed, and were plentiful. And the concept of Heaven and Hell were very well known to the Essenes. In fact, like Paul, they believed in multiple heavens, the resurrection of a soul, dualism, and many other Orphic concepts that Paul seems to be well acquainted with.
Additionally, it is odd that people would try to claim that the Bible does not mimick modern Christianity, when the canonization of the New Testament took several hundred years precisely because the church wanted a canon that fit their dond the four books they chose, whether redacted or not, were the four oldest known to the church at that time, not including Paul's Epistles which were also dated very early (although all dating is speculative). I would shy away from such perspectives. I don't believe they rest on solid ground, and hurt ones arguments against Christianity.
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As for Christianity's modern take on ethics, I've done some good research, which you can find summarized in On Myth, Sexuality, and Culture.
I don't have time to check out the website now, but to every educated person who isn't Christian, it should be obvious that Christianity has changed with the times just as much as any other social institution.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Hehe... Disclaimer:
Rook and I come from exactly opposite sides of the historical fence. When I delve into history, I'm a social historian -- that is, I'm interested in the common man's life, quite separate from what was happening politically or what the historians were writing about. Rook takes the approach of reading what people wrote and piecing together the bigger movements in history.
It might seem on the surface that he and I have just disagreed, but that's not the case. Rook is correct in saying that the modern bible does match the goals of the early church founders. However, I am also correct in saying that throughout history, the impact of day to day religion has changed with the times, and has not often had a lot to do with what the actual church canon said.
It has also not been uncommon for the church itself to deviate from its own doctrines, as you will see if you read that essay I linked to.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Hamby,
Thank you for posting that. I do agree with you when you say that church doctrine changed as it progessed, or to make it more clear, the church changed the hermeneutics of the Bible (or its interpretation). I also agree that the church is notorious for deviating from it's doctrine of benevolence and its edict of supreme wisdom that it feels to possess.
I would respectfully disagree with you and I are coming from different sides of the fence. I am very, very much a social historian. In order for one to adequately be a historian, socio-cultural situations and anthropological data is the biggest factor in developing a model or hypothesis on life in antiquity. My focus is exactly in understanding lifestyle in the Hellenistic Diaspora. I do feel that (and this in no way deminishes from what you are studying and writing about, which is excellent) I have a much more specific expertise then most do, as my goal is to interpret how and why Jews wrote so much fiction during their time in the Diaspora, and what motivations they had - due to those lifestyles in which they lived - in creating a vastly different, and again fictional, history of their culture, even inventing the very culture in which they practiced!
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server, which houses Celebrity Atheists. Books by Rook Hawkins (Thomas Verenna)
Hehe... ok, maybe the fence is a bad analogy. I suppose a circle is better. Where my study goes Science ----> human nature -----> historical concensus -----> extrapolation of human experience in history, yours is more concerned with actually developing the historical concensus.
In other words, my work is dependent on yours.
[edit: Hell, it's all interdependent. I was just trying to be all analogous...]
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
You're right, I was probably being a little too nit-picky. =)
Yeah Rook; darn words; I goofed; What really is Gnostic ? That word is so broadly used. It's like saying gnostics were / are people who have philosophical / religious ideas. So it is safe to say, early christians were gnostic; but from most of what I've read, as when applied to xainity, it seems most often to refer to anti Pauline xainity. ??? Maybe it's just the way I slant my primitive research ???
Gnostic = knowing / Agnostic = not knowing
Gnostics & Agnostics = thinkers, but no concensus about what they believe.
I've read ;
Gnostics = the ideas presented in the dead sea scrolls ..."lable of the [ knowing ] losers" in the formation of [ unknowing] xainity.
Gnostics = liberal
Gnostics = Monism - the metaphysical and theological view that all is ONE, that there are no fundamental divisions, and a unified set of laws underlie nature.
Gnostics = ridge, Dualistic ; Robert Eisenman advanced the theory that some scrolls actually describe the early Christian community, characterized as more fundamentalist and rigid than the one portrayed by the New Testament.
then I read; The Gnostic Gospels [ and buddha ] by Elaine Pagels http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/story/pagels.html According to gnostics, faith was for the multitude, knowledge for the few.
then I read; DID YOU KNOW? http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/gospel/learn.html
then "Church of God? or The Temples of Satan" R.A. Anderson http://oneheartbooks.com/books/misc_titles/temples_of_satan.htm
ETC ETC
~!@#$%^&*() ....... then I start pulling my hair out and screaming "Damn fucking useless words." .... Here's the worst of all , > "G-O-D" <
then I get smashed, then I do same shit all over again .... then I think of buddha and laugh !
Atheism Books.