Just ONE way.....no!
Offline First I must say Thanks to Jake
He got me saying the phrase "there is no ONE way" when referring to atheist groups and the diversity within them. Which brings me now to the message I want to deliver ~~If you desire please read my blog it isn't necessary to participate in this post but will set the mood~~
Atheism. It means so many things to so many people. We could split hairs and demand that someone that calls themself atheist understand that means No Belief in God. Well then that person whines and demands that they be put in the "spiritual" category or "weak" or "strong" categories. SO many categories....for one description of no belief in a god.
~Could you imagine watching a football season where ALL the coaches lead, coach and mentor their team the same exact way? No different coaching techniques, just the same way. What about the Quarterbacks...what if they all had the same style right down to the way they throw----straight into the arms of the receivers who have the same excat form and run the same exact speed.... Seriously!
Why do many atheists or agnostics believe that "there can only be ONE way" to be agnostic or atheist? I am sure it comes down to a bit of ignorance in regards to their lack of belief as well as an appeal to their own egos. What do you guys think?
-Renee
Slowly building a blog at ~
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I gave my opinion of this in a different thread, but i'll copy here too.
(edited because the quote lost my indentions)
Note: I used "Epistemological Nihilist" in that example because that's what fiser claimed to be in the other thread.
This is not complete or perfectly accurate, just an example of the idea. I would like to take the time to elaborate and structure it better, but i'll leave that up to someone that knows more than i do about various religions.
"Atheist" like you said only states a position, it does not discribe how we view that position. And it doesnt adress how we get our voices heard.
The NFL is not a football team, it is a league. There are 32 teams and each have different playing styles. Some teams are more show boaty while other teams are more reserved and smile while they kick your butt without "in your face" celebrations in the endzone.
Being diverse does not mean we have to be divided. Just like any label, we have our differances while still having the same common core of not holding a god belief.
I think our diversity is important because it shows theists that we are just as diverse and that humanizes us. We are all different types. We are mild, we are bold, we are blunt, and we are polite, and others are "in your face". We are all of those things and yet we are still atheists.
I think the important thing is to simply raise your voice, no matter how you chose to do it. If we want to be seen by theists as individuals and we want theists to stop being sheep and be individuals themselves, then it is important for us to be individuals.
I dont think as individuals that needs to make us divided. The important thing, no matter what how we do it, is to continue to be heard.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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I find all the labels confusing and annoying. Many labels have different meanings for different people.
It's definately important to dig through the many groups until you find one that fits.
Respectfully,
Lenny
"The righteous rise, With burning eyes, Of hatred and ill-will
Madmen fed on fear and lies, To beat and burn and kill"
Witch Hunt from the album Moving Pictures. Neal Pert, Rush
Sure there is 'one' way. Believe in god(s) or don't believe in god(s)
All of those clever little adjectives are describing HOW someone sees themselves portrayed on their little celluloid projectors in that chasm called the cranium.
Self-important, sexed-up, sweet-sounding silly solipsism.
How's that for a behavioral label?
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server, which houses Celebrity Atheists.
I always get, oh your an atheist...you don't believe in anything then.....where the freak does I don't believe in a god of any kind, get to I don't believe in anything? I never understood this mentality, I usually point out my beliefs in human rights, in protecting this earth (until we find a better planet and by then I will be dead), i believe in the goodness of humanity, in our ability to overcome our ignorance, I definately believe that we as humans can change, but I still don't get how me being an atheist means I don't believe in anything?
So let me ask you guys this:
How do you react to a fellow atheist or agnostic (or whatever label they want to slap on themselves) that has a totally different approach when dealing with theists? Lets say that atheist curls their lip up in disgust at the way you handle your interaction compared to theirs? That is truly the point of this thread.
-Renee
Slowly building a blog at ~
http://obsidianwords.wordpress.com/
I favor the activist atheists, there's no doubt about that. However, I don't attack the complacent atheists that want to sit idly by and "live and let live".
I only attack them when they attack us saying that we should not react to religious influence. To tell us to sit by and allow the religions to take over is insanity.
"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci
Well I always remind my fellow disgusted with my ways atheist, that they are free not to follow my ways, however I find them hypocritical, that they will critize me but not the theists, and if they do, why keep it private, however if they wish to be private about their critiques of theism, they should be private about their critiques of my beliefs about theism and how I rather humiliate theists that have stupid arguments and beliefs, as only with complete and utter humiliation of those beliefs do I personally view that theism will be relegated to the realms of ignorance that it belongs to.
Don't tell anybody, but I think it's good for everybody that the debate over what atheism is continues.
For one thing, there are soooo many silent atheists running about. If they speak up about us misrepresenting them, guess what? It's another atheist we can verify. Even in nonparticipation, our (atheists) numbers grow.
For another thing, while everyone has an opinion, all opinions are not equal. You can call a person a pink pony and there is still an objective fact -- they either believe in god(s) or they don't. In any discussion of what atheism means, there will inevitably be tangential conversations about whether or not there is a god. This is helping us.
Frankly, I wish every atheist in the country would do something. If they're not into ending religion, maybe they could get politically active, or do something in the school system. If I can help this happen by poking them in their delicate sensibilities with my approach to atheism, that's great.
The bottom line, then, is that I believe the discussion about atheist diversity encourages atheist diversity.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
I've been involved with training people for various things for many years now. Something I learned quite a while ago and try to always keep in mind is that there are many ways to teach and many ways to learn. Human interactions (is/are?) not mathematics, there is no one correct answer. What works best for some may not work best for others. In short, I try not to get my panties in a bunch if I witness someone approaching things differently than I prefer.
I try to be open to input that could help me improve my delivery or performance. On the other hand, if no constructive criticism is offered, only curled lip. I gave up giving a shit what other's think about what or how I do things a long time ago.
Respectfully,
Lenny
"The righteous rise, With burning eyes, Of hatred and ill-will
Madmen fed on fear and lies, To beat and burn and kill"
Witch Hunt from the album Moving Pictures. Neal Pert, Rush
Well, while there may be no one way, I think there are better and worse ways. I react to those who approach dealing with theists in ways that I think unproductive or counterproductive to my particular goals by attempting to have a discussion with them about what they are trying to accomplish and why. Of course, I don't expect any atheist to necessarilly agree with me, but that doesn't stop me from trying to explain the way I see things and get them to come around to my way of thinking. I expect the same from them as well.
Well, hopefully, they have something more productive to say than simply curling their lip in disgust. If I find what they say reasonable, then I am likely to end up agreeing with them. That's the point of discussing disagreements.
I found this site somewhat counter to my own ideas when I first joined but after being around here for a while and listening to the ideas being expressed I find I have come to agree with a lot of what I see here much more than I did in the beginning.
“Philosophers have argued for centuries about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, but materialists have always known it depends on whether they are jitterbugging or dancing cheek to cheek" -- Tom Robbins
The curse of the bleeding heart rears its ugly head.
I think this is something that a lot of freethinkers miss. Many progressives and/or liberals get their panties in a twist when there's heated debate or animosity between opposing sides, but I think that's productive. The trick is not to kill, censor, or oppress the other side. Everyone getting along is way, way too much to hope for, but we can hope that everyone gets a fair shot and being heard and that the power of rational persuasion will tend to produce good results.
Case in point.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
You realize we are in agreement here, right? I couldn't tell if you thought we agreed or disagreed, but this is basically another way of saying what I was attempting to say.
Exactly.
“Philosophers have argued for centuries about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, but materialists have always known it depends on whether they are jitterbugging or dancing cheek to cheek" -- Tom Robbins
Yep. I was just adding another dimension to what you were saying.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Whew! I would have hated for there to be a disagreement.
“Philosophers have argued for centuries about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, but materialists have always known it depends on whether they are jitterbugging or dancing cheek to cheek" -- Tom Robbins
I believe I learned how to be an atheist here at RRS. The last several years of my 20's I was in limbo with Christianity. The first couple years of my 30's I was in limbo with Atheism.
I believed in Evolution and all that Science taught. I thought ID was retarded and should be kept out of our schools. I realized that all religions were a bunch of fairy tales. And I called myself an agnostic.
One day I noticed some of the debates between atheists and theists on You Tube and started to get pissed at religion. Then I found RRS.
New Militant Atheist shortly thereafter.
It's time to kick some theist ass.
"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci
I think I am probably starting to sound like a broken record on the subject but I believe very strongly that different approachs are going to get results from differnet people. Diversity is fantastic. Atheism itself is nothing. There is not something specific there to fight for it's the extensions that are worth fighting for and what things you feel are worth fighting for and your personality are going to generate all kinds of differences and that's fantastic.
In any kind of social movement where you're trying to convince the majority you're going to need to strike a cord with individuals to convince them. Different people are going to react to different things so you're going to need to hit them all and hope for the best I think.
The only 'one way' is whatever is most comfortable and effective for the individual.
I react to atheists that disagree with me the same way I react to theists that disagree with me: I argue until I'm blue in the face.
Lazy is a word we use when someone isn't doing what we want them to do.
- Dr. Joy Brown
Wow. If that's all they did then I wouldn't have a problem.
Ever been attacked for your methods in a blog or message? lol.
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server, which houses Celebrity Atheists.
Well, that is what prompted this post to begin with. (check out the blog listed in the OP) But I wish I would get more push back LoL
Slowly building a blog at ~
http://obsidianwords.wordpress.com/