This site is not hypocritical. It has vision that theism doesn't. Secularists can be theists or atheists. As an atheist you should know that you have theistic friends and loved ones and co-workers that you get along with and respect as individuals.

However, respecting a person as a whole is not the same as respecting a claim on a specific issue. If I claim that I have a purple snarfwidget living under my bed, do you merely accept that and respect it, or do you ask for evidence and challenge me to rethink my claim. While you may respect the individual you are not always going to agree with everything they claim nor should you be required to respect it without evidence. The person and the claim are separate issues.

Sites like this are not out to commit genocide in the name of atheism. It does have an agenda, but it is not one of hate and bigotry. The anger expressed here is at people of all labels making unfounded claims. We wouldn't feel the need for sites like this if we didn't feel that religions are having a negative affect on politics and the global community.

Gravity has no agenda. Religion is far to much in the world a political and war tool to rally the masses and pit human against human.

I do think we have the right to challenge people on what they believe. I think we have a duty to our fellow humans to critically analyze at a minimum, the overbearing role religion plays on governments. The survival of humanity depends on people saying "Stop your bloody cheer leading"

It is because of the behavior of Muslims in the Middle East, and the denial of Christian theocracies of the past, that this division remains.

To say that religious politicking in the west is civil makes it OK, is a huge mistake and will lead Christians to the same barbaric acts they accuse the East of.

So if you want to accuse this site of being angry, you'd be right. If you want to accuse this site of being hateful, you'd be right, but not for the reasons you think.

Reason is with this site. We know that religion is not going away. We know that it would be sick and inhumane to have a forceful jihad ourselves. That is not what we are about.

This site and sites like it are about giving humanity a verbal smack in the face before it is too late for all of us. We see religion much like being in a passenger seat when the driver is about to run a red light and we shout "STOP!"

No one here is out to oppress anyone, but we certainly do need to stop all religions from becoming cheer leading clubs where everyone kills and dies for their club based on ancient writings.

So yes, we are angry. But it is because we see the potential of humanity getting along being distracted by religious politicking and waring when we could be as a species be taking care of disease and famine and stopping genocide.

The Middle East is bent on making Allah the god of the world. But the west with Christianity, especially in America intends on doing the same with Christianity. Both are foaming at the mouth like rabid dogs at the thought of global dominance. They simply have different tactics. Both do want peace, but peace through dominance.

Make no mistake about it though, there people of all labels both atheist and theist that are concerned with the global sky daddy dick measuring contest. So this anger and frustration toward humanities religious division is not a product of an atheist jihad nor is it limited to atheists.

If you are uncomfortable with the god cop bad cop scenario you see here, that's fine. But back it up with suggestions, get out there and do something yourself. But complaining about your image of this site is truly unfounded and misses the point of what is done here.

If theists want to prove to us that they arent out to oppress us and that all humans should have equal rights, then they need to face the fact that our governments are not owned by one deity. Again, plenty of theists would agree with that.

I see nothing wrong with saying, "Human flesh does not survive rigor mortis". Ignoring this is what it takes to believe in the death of Jesus as described by the bible. If religion and government were not mixing to the extent it has been, especially recently, and this were left up to debate outside government institutions, I wouldn't be so angry or worried.

But do not assume because I or anyone here exhibits frustration or anger toward religious behavior that somehow we assume that everyone in every religion agrees with a goal of global and political dominance. There are Christians, Muslims Jews and atheists that see what this site sees, even if they don't agree with us on the existence of a deity. There are people in theism just as concerned.

Most of us here can attest to theist friends and family who are capable of accepting us as true equals and are willing to engage us in debate without assuming that we are out to oppress them.

Do I want to see the end of religion? YES, but not by oppressive genocidal or political tactics. But through use of debate and free inquiry and objective testing outside of government.

I am rational enough to know what far to many theists of all labels cannot see. You cant expect people to follow you by use of political force. It never works because once the oppressed becomes the oppressor. I don't think anyone here is out to oppress anyone nor should they be.

So please refrain from making assumptions about what the intent of this site is. It is not oppressing every religious person. It is criticism of outrageous magical claims. It is also going after divisive fundies who have a totalitarian view of the world, be it Christian or Muslim and everyone of every label should be concerned with "My way or the highway" attitude that both Christians and Muslims have in their midst.

That is my rant and I will not back off of it. If those in theism want to prove to me that it is really about peace, then those in all camps need to stop religious funding in politics and face their own fears and bigotry of others and stop demanding that the rest of the world be a clone of them.

It does piss me off the way some in theism, far too many in my estimation use religion as a political and warfare too to achieve dominance, regardless of tactic. Humanity only has one planet to live on and for the species to survive we need to get our priorities straight. Christianity and Islam do not have enough numbers within these camps as of yet, to promote a "live and let live" attitude. And both have the selfish self interest in spreading, either through warfare or political deck stacking. Again, that is not saying all people within theism take this view.

There is more and more division amongst different religion and in America we are becoming a theocratic 1984 where Jesus is Big Brother which will, in the end lead us here to the same barbaric acts America says it is fighting in the east.

Our goal is not to wipe out religion by genocide or force, but to move humanity at a minimum, to the point where self examination and critical thought replaces "I have project myself on others otherwise I cannot validate what I believe".

No, I meant discussed.

You didn't refute or even respond to the points I made. YOU DISMISSED THEM. I ADDRESSED THEM.

I didn't re-qualify, I showed the definition.

Show me where I denied they apply. I didn't. I showed you why you were muddying the waters by using the term. Miltant generally refers to acts of violence, you're simply choosing a word meant to "brainwash" (by definition) the reader into believing we're violent, when we're not.

Notice you just dodged the overall issue again, selectively removed my quote on it, in which I destroyed your shit argument on me not seeing the big picture, while it was you yourself doing it.

You embody hypocrisy and dishonesty every step of the way, it's no wonder you so fervently need to prove that we who hold the truthiness high ground are hypocritical.

Fear that he is linked biologically to such stupidity. I have the same fear about my relation to you.

He should've. In the presence of such ignorance he risks running the chance of some of Pastor Teds moronicism wearing off on him.

And you want to hang out in our politics forum? Hell no. I'm laying my foot down now, you are welcome in this thread, and you are welcome in any atheist vs. theist thread. You're viewpoint which you are incapable of defending is not welcome where actual intellectuals are discussing politics or anything else. You're lucky you're still even allowed to post here after I've exposed your dishonest tactics in every post you've made.

Feel free to actually defend the claim that Pastor Ted "shut him down." Prove it.

Feel free to show where anyone said that.

He didn't need to speak, it was overtly obvious to any informed person that Pastor Ted was representive of an extremely ignorant position. One which you seem to embrace, which sheds some light on your own inability to grasp the concepts we've been discussing.

Me too. Dawkins is funny the way he treats creationists like the lunatics they deserve to be treated as. Oh wait... you meant.... lol... (that was a laugh at YOU)

Keep grasping at straws. Anyone who embraces science and positions that can be verified and tested are going to eventually come to the exact same conclusions. This is the power of science, this is where religion fails. If Dawkins and I both commit to testing something scientifically without ever communicating with each other, we will come to the exact same conclusion, likely expressing much of it word for word. These same rules apply to logic and rational thought. If I embrace good logic as does Dawkins we will come to the same conclusions independently of each other, and neither of us would ever be dumb enough to accuse the other of plagiarising the others thoughts.

If you would like to listen to my interview with Sam Harris, a free show playable here, you will hear me talk about how refreshing it is that both Sam and I have many of the same conclusions about religion without have ever knowing each other. I was alerted to Sams and Dawkins work because I already held the exact same viewpoints as them, without ever knowing them. I just read Sams new book and learned nothing new, I could've written the book myself, it was virtually everything I would have said, had I decided to write a book of that sort.

Plagiarism by the way is a form of dishonesty, something that you excel at, so once again please stop projecting your inadequacies on me.

Feel free to point out where anyone said by means of violence.

(another dishonesty, I'm betting you'll dodge this point like you have SOOOOOOO many others)

Another dishonesty, this one extremely trivial. Point out where anyone said they want to see the birth certificate of Jesus.

Then follow up by actually proving Jesus is real without using the bible, doing such would be circular logic of course, which proves nothing. Use extra-biblical sources of his life that coincide with the biblical story that originated from the time of his existence.

$10, says you'll dodge this one too. (I'll give any loses to Rook)

Allah is real, I don't have the time to explain it to you now.

See how pointless it is even bringing it up, you likely don't believe me? By the way this is two posts in a row you claim you don't have the time.

The behavior we are against is irrational thought, basing beliefs off of no evidence. Once again, show us where we've done that.

You've failed at doing so, over and over and over and over.

Where's the dead horse? It needs to get beat again.

How bout you either start being intellectually honest, or you just give up?

MOD HAT: Increase the level of honesty in your posts, go back and address many of the issues that you've dodged, or your account will be blocked from posting on this site in accordance with the rules already posted to you in this thread that still appy.