Animals are angels????
Offline Ok, so there I was tooling around the house and the tv happened to be on Animal Planet. The show Animal Miracles was on, and in virtually every case the animal who rescued its human was called a miracle, a "golden angel", a gift from god, or an answered prayer. Some of the animals were thought of as "just a pet", but were elevated to "family member" after their heroic deed. Wouldn't it be wrong to consider a soulless animal as valuable as a human, even a family member??
Let me see if I can get this straight..... As far as I can tell, animals have no concept of god, or even souls....so how can they do good, or ever be considered anything more than "dumb beasts"??
Ohhhhh and then there was the old ranch hand who made friends with an old research ape. That, at first, seemed utterly amazing, but then, considering the similarities between humans and apes, really isn't amazing at all. The man even learned to "speak ape" without even realizing it.
Don't mind me. I'm just babbling....
We must favor verifiable evidence over private feeling. Otherwise we leave ourselves vulnerable to those who would obscure the truth.
~ Richard Dawkins
- Login to post comments
When I read the title I thought someone smoked something again and then re-worked a bad argument...
But it looks like they just smoked something and got saved by a pet, or a monkey or something.
My critters have been family members since the moment they picked me to be their caregiver.
They were all heroic, however, because each and every one of them has survived a sad background.
If there was a god, he wouldn't have allowed them such rough beginnings.
They do a great deal of good, though, because they bring a lot of unqualified love into my life.
Let any Xian dispute that and I'll take them out at the knees!
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server.
So Susan, tell me, what is "love" and where did it come from? What invisible force creates "love" or "good"? What force creates "rough beginnings" or "evil"? Does the existence of "God" mean he would not "allow" evil to exist? Would a devine God step in and save us all?
Good and Evil co-exist. There cannot be one without the other.
Logic, Reason, TRUTH
Love is an emotion created in the mind. Who says there can't be one without the other?
Who has that quote about santa and presents?
Then there will always be evil even in heaven.
And when God was all that existed that had to be the case, too. So God is partially evil and the devil is partially good.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
The unqualified love is mine and Mattshizzle is correct, it's a human emotion. It is good for me. ("good" being an adverb.) I said nothing about evil. I said nothing about good or evil being created. I feel that you are twisting my words.
What created "rough beginnings" for my critters? Humans.
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server.
I was was thinking online. The animals, I guess, were created for Adam. Apparently only humans had souls and capable of good and evil, right?
Well these animals, did not act in the interest of their own survival, some acted out of love.
The people hype it to be more than it is sometimes. There was one segment about a dog found in a grave yard howling and pretty skinny. The folks who found him/her called her a gift from god, as she was found in a graveyard (with all the spookiness protrade, it couldve been satan...HAHA).
They named it Spook and it later saved the woman from a bee sting she was allergic to...it really was amazing.
I think the animal had witnessed the death of its previous human, and that was why it was hanging out in the grave yard.
When the animal saw the distress its new human was in, it was (to the dog) history repeating itself. Out of panic, it kept licking, and frantically pulling at her clothes -even ripping them- to keep her conscious long enough to call for help.
They called it a miracle...I call it a traumatized dog trying to keep history from repeating.
Matt dear, luv ya, but if you, propose that damned love argument again, Ima gonna come through that screen of yours and knock ya upside da head!
(you can try another, but don't tell them I said. I just wanna give you a "wag of the finger" for doing it twice in the same thread 
)
PS My dog was a street rescue. We wound up keeping her, despite a pathetic attempt to find her another home...damn heart weasels
We must favor verifiable evidence over private feeling. Otherwise we leave ourselves vulnerable to those who would obscure the truth.
~ Richard Dawkins
If there were no evil, then there wouldnt be a guage of what good is.
Logic, Reason, TRUTH
The exsistance of evil dosnt mean it will "be" in particular places.
Logic, Reason, TRUTH
How can I twist your words by asking you questions?
So you are saying that good and evil are both created by humans in humans. So in your opinion love is a human thing only. So do the animals love? Not twisting words here...making you THINK. If love is a sharred thing among speicies, where did it come from?
Logic, Reason, TRUTH
OK WARNING...Im going to reference the Bible in this one only because you mentioned it. I dont like to tho! In Genisis, it does mention the "breath of life" in animals that Noah brought on the ark. So if you belive that, I would think that animals have souls as well. Eh...who knows.
Logic, Reason, TRUTH
You know, I'm going to live with apes from now on. Sure, they throw poop at you, but that's good fun. No deities!
VoR, please keep in consideration that value judgments are entirely subjective, and words like "good" and "evil" are human inventions. Just because a word exists doesn't mean it makes a lot of sense in 2006. The same goes for this "soul" you mention, I would like to hear you define it. (I am somewhat of a sadist.)
OOOOOh my! is that a threat on my soul? I suppose everyone in heaven will get a good view of Gods evil plan of sticking us heathens in his eternal ovens. The road to heaven is fascist...
Like the Jews other people can't help what they are....You will say then to me, "Why does he still find fault? For who withstands his will?" But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed ask him who formed it, "Why did you make me like this?" Good question, but with a fascist non-answer answer if you read on.
http://web.biblebrowser.com/romans/9-1.htm
Romans 9:1-24
I tell the truth in Christ. I am not lying, my conscience testifying with me in the Holy Spirit, that I have great sorrow and unceasing pain in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brothers' sake, my relatives according to the flesh,
who are Israelites; whose is the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service, and the promises;of whom are the fathers, and from whom is Christ as concerning the flesh, who is over all, God, blessed forever. Amen. But it is not as though the word of God has come to nothing. For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel. Neither, because they are Abraham's seed, are they all children. But, "In Isaac will your seed be called."That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as a seed.For this is a word of promise, "At the appointed time I will come, and Sarah will have a son."
Not only so, but Rebecca also conceived by one, by our father Isaac.
For being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him who calls, it was said to her, "The elder will serve the younger."Even as it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? May it never be! For he said to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I caused you to be raised up, that I might show in you my power, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." So then, he has mercy on whom he desires, and he hardens whom he desires. You will say then to me, "Why does he still find fault? For who withstands his will?" But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed ask him who formed it, "Why did you make me like this?"
Or hasn't the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel for honor, and another for dishonor?
What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath made for destruction,
and that he might make known the riches of his glory on vessels of mercy, which he prepared beforehand for glory, us, whom he also called,..
Hitler burned people like Anne Frank for being jewish, for that people call Hitler evil.
God burns people who rejects Christ -forever.....for that Christians call thier God good.
( plagiarized from todangst )
God is evil too, and is everywhere....even heaven.
I repeat, I said nothing about evil. I said nothing about good and evil being created. You are, in fact, twisting my words. At the very least, you are trying to put words in my mouth.
I said that my critters had rough beginnings that were created by humans. e.g. Thrown out onto the street, abandoned at the shelter, being all-four declawed, no access to fresh food and water, no medical attention, etc.
I would like to think my critters love me as I love them. However, they would likely ditch me in a heartbeat for someone who fed them nothing but Fancy Feast.
There can be loyalty as a learned behavior. Critters learn when dinner is served, when a lap is warm and comfortable or that a chin scratch is pleasant. If there is no exposure to humans to learn the behavior, the critters are feral and completely untrusting. Try cuddling a feral cat and you'll really understand that.
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server.
Hmmm. I it is probably the same invisible “force” that millions of people pray too. The same “force” that supposedly watches over every person on this planet and judges them according to how they live and believe. The Same “force” that kills millions of wile letting corrupt people flourish. I think it is the same exact invisible “force” the make lemming fallow each other off a cliff to there deaths. I think this “force” as you call it is simply just blind faith and nothing more.
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." - Pascal
I dont know why you guys even bother talking to this guy VoiceOfReason/MrPeters
He needs time to learn more about this board and the RRS.
We must favor verifiable evidence over private feeling. Otherwise we leave ourselves vulnerable to those who would obscure the truth.
~ Richard Dawkins