Stance on non-theistic religion?
Offline Hi everybody,
This is my first post here and I just wanted to say how proud I am to be a part of this community.
I'll get straight to the point.
I have become more interested in theism and atheism recently (I am a proud atheist), and have been reading as much as I can about the different arguments put forth by both sides. I have tried to have discussions with people of different religions, and I often find myself stumped by questions that I know have an answer, but unfortunately I cannot answer myself due to lack of knowledge.
I'm seeking help from fellow community members with regards to these and I'm sure all your answers will be logical and concise.
A couple of these questions are:
1. What is your stance on non-theistic religions such as Buddhism?
My answer to this was "I am only opposed to what is irrational. I do not know enough about Buddhism to completely discount it as a way of life.
If a religion such as Buddhism is non-theistic, are you guys and gals opposed to it? Or is your opposition to Christianity, Islam etc. based on the fact that theism itself is irrational? I'm not sure if that makes sense, but I'll gladly clarify any questions you have.
Question 2:
If there is in fact a God, is it possible he exists in a form that we aren't able to quantify, and we don't need to worry about worshipping it or anything like that, because just by being alive, and existing, and just by all other matter existing, it is verification of something else. Well... not verification, just.. I don't know... it's hard to explain. The point I'm trying to make is; if there is a God, we don't need to worry about any of the things that any religion talks about. We will never know God in the way that religion says, if at all. But it is possible that a God exists, somehow.
I realize that there is no evidence for a God like that, and belief in it would be irrational... but.. I don't know what I'm trying to say. Ha ha. I'd just like other intelligent people's thoughts on the matter.
Thanks,
LM
Theism is for n00bs.
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Uno: Well I remember hearing about how Budda didn't want to start a new religion or be seen as something more, but its not like I'm looking anything up. I see it a more of a philosophy then a religion, but it has grown to be more of a religion then it probably started out as. +1 on the irrational part
Dos:
Then we should treat him as if he does exist. I mean if there is no reason to believe then it is reasonable not to believe.
You should be careful with that logic because it isn't that logical. Us being alive isn't proof of anything but us being alive. Also those who don't think life is proof can easily spin them around and make it look like our proof. If that’s possible the argument is probably a poor one and shouldn't be used.
Really depends on what they are talking about really. I mean I would be perfectly fine if my neighbor thought there was a huge ass diamond in his back yard, but I might get a little concerned if he keeps telling me to stay away from his diamond and buys guns to protect it claiming I want to steal it.
Buddhism
Don't lie. Don't steal. Don't rape. Don't kill anything/anyone. Don't do drugs.
and eventually when you reach enlightenment then your life force will continue on after your body is dead.
These get you started on the path to enlightenment.
When you reach enlightenment, your consciousness will rise above the world and you will understand life and be able to ignore the unenlightened.
Later, more requirements such as confession, bodily torture, ceremony, and judgment by the sangha(spiritual advisors)
Sound like another religion that you might be familiar with?
Probably. Do some research. Google it. Or even better, find a monk and offer to work for him while you begin your path. 18 hour days, little food, hard labor, morning exercise.
Sometimes your sangha will prohibit some medical practices. Hope you're in good health. lol.
Entertaining notions of 'possible gods' is sometimes a lot of fun. However, if undefineable attributes(such as omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence) are applied to the discussion then the fantasy becomes apparent by use of the logical arguments. Like the 'rock' argument, godly morality, etc. It stands with reason that every real thing can be defined, quantified, qualified, clarified, and studied. So if a 'god' were 'real' then the evidence for said god would be available.
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Thanks for your posts guys, my atheism has never been stronger!
Yes, good comments! Nietzsche said somewhere that Buddhism is a nihilistic religion and my impressions are the same. There's something really perverse in Buddhism, I mean, the denial of this world. I think scientific atheism is the only life affirming worldview. Didn't Dawkins say something like this in the end of "Root of All Evil?"? (Which I recently posted on my blog to boost the sales of "The God Delusion")
http://www.myspace.com/jussikniemela
I think the main difference between a "life philosophy" and a "religion" is that a religion calls upon something illogical to explain the rules of life. Therefore, if it's a religion, I reject it out of hand in spite of any similarities it might have with my life philosophy.
Do I agree with some of the basic precepts of buddhism? Yes. But why do I need the religion to convince me I shouldn't lie, steal, rape, etc? Why not just avoid those things because it makes damn good sense?
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
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IMO it is far more moral to avoid lying, stealing, raping etc. simply because they are wrong, than for the fear of a punishment in some friggin' afterlife. And I've noticed that some guys prefer to be pigs even in this life and it's quite OK if they don't overdo it. For example, you definitely don't need the laws of Karma to be a ROCK AND ROLL ANIMAL!
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