Is it possible for a fundy Christian to be a genuine human being?
I say no. They're always effacing themselves, their true nature, trying to become more "Christ-like." Does any of this ring a bell:
1. He must increase; I must decrease.
2. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
3. Jesus first; others second; yourself last = JOY
Growing up fundy, I was never allowed to rebel or have my own opinions. Today I'm extra angry about that and I don't know why. No, it isn't that time of the month. I'm just pissed.
I've also completely lost any respect I had for one of my music teachers, at least on a personal level. I made a mistake and tried to be close friends with him. I knew from the beginning he was a fundy Christian, but thought he'd be somehow different. What an idiotic notion.
I set boundaries and told him that religion was off limits. I told him I was still angry about my fundy friends abandoning me for questioning the all-important Sky Daddy and the baby Jebus. I told him to keep his religious beliefs to himself. In turn, I promised to not harass him with Bertrand Russell, Robert G. Ingersoll and Charles Darwin. Let's just say he broke his promise in a very profound way. Since then, whenever I'm dealing with a fundy--especially this fundy--a little siren goes off in my head that sounds like this: "FA-AKE! FA-AKE! FA-AKE!"
Today another student commented, "He's nice."
I said, "Yes, he's nice." This was the same student who told me that when the teacher broke his promise and tried to convert me, I "needed" it. "Nice," in reference to a fundy, has become synonymous with "fake."
I must have been in the pissiest of moods today. I was standing in line outside the fundy teacher's office behind another student when an older man in his mid-fifties walked by and peered into the fundy's office. I had no idea who he was. He could have been the dean of the college, a professor or some joker off the street. "John's busy, huh?" he said. "What's he doing in there?"
Ask a stupid question...
"I don't know," I said. "Jacking off?"
The man scowled and the young student turned red and suddenly found the sidewalk very interesting.
I'm not sure how to interpret my own behavior. I thought about it off and on for the rest of the day and finally just decided I'm sick of fundies and all the cultural norms that have been dictated by them and their ilk. I'm thoroughly fed up, throroughly angry. And I still don't know what to do with all the anger.
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I hope you don't get blasted for this post. It's honest and vulnerable and you're asking sincere questions. Already atheism is starting to work for you.
To answer your question, can fundies be "genuine human beings?"
I think yes and no, honestly. Some fundies I know or have known have genuine compassion for their fellow man, and really believe that their fairy tale is going to make the world better. I would describe them as people who believe they are genuine.
The inherent dishonesty at the core of fundy Christianity is its most dangerous aspect, though. They are taught to believe that people are evil, that most of what is fun in the world is evil, and most importantly, that people who disagree with them are especially evil.
I suggest that you read a particular book if you have time. It's called "The Authoritarian Specter" by Robert Altmeyer. It describes in scientific language the personality types that are most likely to be fundies, and the truth of the matter is, many of them are inherently not very nice, and would be shits even if they weren't Christians. In other parts of the world, they're extremist Muslims, or whatever.
And look, if you're reading this and you want to call me out and say I'm being unfair, read the damn book first, or I'm just going to tell you you're ignorant of the subject and need to do your homework before you come to the debate.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
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Oh, I forgot one thing. I think you should let yourself experience anger, because, well... you're entitled to it. I was very very angry for a long time. Just try to remember that most xtians are simply misled and are deserving of a certain amount of sympathy because they never had a chance to make a rational decision as an adult.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
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Thanks, Hambydammit. I'm not as young as the OP may make me sound. I've just had a long, lousy time coming to terms with my fundy upbringing as well as a long, lousy time dealing with chronic illnesses. I feel I've never had a chance at anything approximating a "normal" life.
After I finished my degree and got a teaching credential I crashed and burned and haven't been healthy since. I've tried to make numerous "new starts." The realization I was an atheist hit me in 2001. The realization I wasn't a Republican hit me shortly thereafter. I hadn't believed in god in years, but hadn't really made it "formal" in my brain.
I held up this teacher as proof that not all fundies were nasty people and he proved to me that fundies can't be trusted. I'll never trust one again. All that nicety-nice crap hides a load of bullshit, at least in my experience...and I've known way too many fundies.
Right now I feel trapped in fundyland by circumstances and the only outlet I have is to make obscene references to what fundy teachers might be doing in their offices.
My mother and teacher go to the same church. Someone who borrowed my piano book waited on me in a restaurant yesterday. One of the few students in the musicianship class is best friends with my brother's stepdaughter. I'm really hating the feeling of being trapped in this insular fundy enclave. Every time I turn around I'm reminded I'm trapped. I feel like gnawing my own foot off. A crass remark doesn't seem all that bad in light of the way I feel. *shrug*
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Agreed, defiantly entitled to your anger.
Your anger is justified. You trusted someone, and they betrayed that trust. What's worse, you've had someone tell you that his breach of trust was "needed". Justified. I'm sorry you had to deal with this.
I worry sometimes when I have theist friends that I'm their "token atheist friend" as proof that they don't judge, and secretly hope to convert me one day. But then I get over my paranoia and hang out with my buddies, and all is cool...
Until I hear stories like this.... O_O
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Iruka, it's funny that you mention music classes and such. When I was an undergraduate (speaking of age, I just realized I was an undergraduate over a decade ago... ugh) the music and theater departments were in the same building, and I used to make a joke about the fact that I was the only straight man, and the only atheist in the entire building.
It always struck me as bizarre that so many of these guys who were either closet cases or way out of the closet were still Republican Christians. That's how insane the deep south is. Imagine being in a liberal arts program and being the only atheist. Only in America. I have a tough time not believing that there's something very masochistic about a gay man who insists on being a Republichristian.
Anyway, that's neither here nor there, but I thought maybe you'd find it interesting.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Speaking further of age, I was an undergraduate nearly TWO decades ago. That means I'm older than you. Being older doesn't necessarily mean being wiser, although I hope I am wiser than I was when I was an undergraduate.
I look much younger than my actual age. A couple of people have miskaken me for being "twenty-something." That's good because I sometimes feel as confused as the twenty-somethings must be. When you're raised fundy, you usually suffer from some kind of arrested development. It may at least partially explain my insinuating the fundy music professor was jacking off in his office.
I think the chronic illnesses are finally catching up to me, though. The reflection in the mirror has been looking older and sadder.
This week I've been deeply disturbed by my failing health. My left eye is blurry and painful and despite four trips to various doctors, I still don't know why. Sinusitis is part of the problem, but some of it could be plastic plugs from post-LASIK migrating to other places in my face. I don't know because I can't contact the eye doctor.
The initial antibiotic failed on the sinusitis and as I sit here, I'm fighting hives from an allergic reaction to the second antibiotic.
I'm just grumpy.
As for the music department, it seems to attract a lot of Christians. An extremely liberal prof used to be next door to the fundy music teacher and she was constantly after him for borderline abuse of separation between church and state. She urged me to complain to the president about the attempted proselytization. It, too, was pretty borderline since it happened off-campus. Still, I felt he abused his position as a teacher to get to me. He definitely broke his promise.
Since then, I've been watching him around the kids as much as possible. I think he knows I've been watching him. If I catch him proselytizing kids, the gloves come off. We have enough brainwashed kids at the college that were homeschooled. We don't need more. I caught a bunch of them putting "Bush" stickers and balloons on the liberal teacher's door.
"But she likes it when we do stuff like this," they sputtered.
I looked at them, askance. "I don't think so."
"But...but she's a liberal," they said.
"So?"
"But...but she's really liberal."
"And your point is?"
They took most of the stuff down and put it in the trash. I helped them by ripping off the last remaining "Bush '04" sticker.
This is my community. I wish the liberal lady prof had taken me with her to Santa Cruz.
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