Ethical Dilemma
Fundy's will argue that our society has declined b/c of secularism. Your comments?
The argument goes, for example: wouldn't life be better if everyone was on the same page, believed in the same imaginary Santa in the sky to, say, A) save innocent lives (the guy last year who shot up the Amish school might not of if he feared eternal damnation, etc). B) keeping idiots (the "great unwashed") and/or people who justify "doing what they want b/c they can" away from ethical/thinking folk who know better.
The things that keep me up at night.
EDUCATION! EDUCATION! EDUCATION!
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The Myth of Secular Moral Chaos
Sam Harris
One cannot criticize religious dogmatism for long without encountering the following claim, advanced as though it were a self-evident fact of nature: there is no secular basis for morality. Raping and killing children can only really be wrong, the thinking goes, if there is a God who says it is. Otherwise, right and wrong would be mere matters of social construction, and any society would be at liberty to decide that raping and killing children is actually a wholesome form of family fun. In the absence of God, John Wayne Gacy could be a better person than Albert Schweitzer, if only more people agreed with him.
It is simply amazing how widespread this fear of secular moral chaos is, given how many misconceptions about morality and human nature are required to set it whirling in a person’s brain. There is undoubtedly much to be said against the spurious linkage between faith and morality, but the following three points should suffice.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Thanks for this piece!
Again, coming from a "Fundy Family" upbringing, having to argue/debate with my "Fundy Folks," I can hear them retort, something like the following:
"Growing up in our era (40s/50s) we had certain moral precepts that were generally accepted. Not everybody followed the rules, but hey! look at what we have now. Rampant promiscuity, STDs, kids having kids (which, by the way, most cannot afford to raise), etc. The 60s brought us the "do what ya want/ I'm-just-doin'-my-own- thing,-man" philosophy, and so people did just that.
Again, look at kids who grew up in the late 60s to today's 20-something & under crowd*compared with ours*. The "post-1950s" group reacted to society at large's general acceptance and promotion of hendonism which has resulted in a bunch of kids having kids, STDs, etc. Oh and by the way, how do you get HIV/AIDS? By having a) sex with a carrier, or b) sharing needles, both sins. What are secularists/atheists doing to stop this? Why should we be 'tolerant' of this kind of behavior when it is a CHOICE on behalf of the individual who knew the consequences of said behavior?"
So that leaves me thinking to myself: "Yeah, you know, if every dumb kid in America had this fear of an 'Angry-Dad-in-the-Sky' guy who would send you to Hell for being irresponsible, who cares? If they figure things out later in life and start questioning things, well great! At least the taxpayer has some relief and we've saved society from having to put up direct consequences of the idiot factor."
I guess the bottomline for me is this: what do we as ethical responsible folks do to get dumb-dumbs from being dumb?
EDUCATION! EDUCATION! EDUCATION!
They need to read some history books...
Well maybe if they forget about all the deaths religion has caused in the past and is causeing today...
Wait what? Now the great sky daddy is just a tool to keep people in line? Is that all they have left to justify the irrational?
Yes, moderates who just think everything will work out if you do nothing worry me too, but I also worry about the people who know people don't want to do anything.
I live in the most secular countries in the world, ergo -speaking from experience- LMFAO. The more religious a country is, the more messed up things are is virtually an axiom.
~Let us be reasonable~
You want to claim there's such a thing as "the supernatural"? Fine. I hereby declare you to be "paracorrect" in doing so.
The incident where the man who shot the amish girls might have happened reguardless as well as the many other "etc's". That shooter had mental problems.
btw I take Ambien
People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.
Regarding references to regimes like that of Pol Pot or Stalin as an excuse to stick to Christianity, and ignore the pleads of the secular rationalists...
....that's like saying we should use heroin because crack has caused people harm.
~Let us be reasonable~
You want to claim there's such a thing as "the supernatural"? Fine. I hereby declare you to be "paracorrect" in doing so.
i dont think so much that things are getting worse by any means in our society as it becomes more secular, but i think there are two things that amplify the amount of 'evil' and 'immoral' acts that are made public:
1) one big difference between the presence and the 1950s is the freely available information offered via the television and the internet. how many new s stories do you see on the evening news about the positive and good things that are happening in the world? instead our minds are filled with rapes, murders, wars, bad weather and the like whenever we choose to watch tv or read the newspaper. the advertising agencies have realized they get alot more ratings shouting armageddon then showing some environment-friendly people donating food to the hungry or planting trees.
this, i think, makes alot more people believe the world is going down the shitter, when in fact they are just showing you all the bad stuff so you stay to watch the commercial break...
(ever notice how before they go on the commercial break they always grab your attention with "Your vegetables could kill you, find out how after this break!"
2) if there is a change in society, i dont believe its necessarily a turn for the worse, ethics and morality change much like fashion, there are no set rules for what is right and wrong, objectively speaking. socially acceptable and unacceptable acts continually change as the society grows. at the beginning of the twentieth century women were frowned upon if they showed their ankles, now however they are free to choose what they expose. (which is not necessarily a good OR bad thing.)
as people get older they always look on the younger generation and judge, its kinda a part of becoming older lol. i'm sure their parents thought that the 1950's swing dancing was obcene and a sin!
Point out the priests who raped little boys. That should cover it.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.