Who here is disgusted with the Nazi badge?
Offline So, what's with the Nazi badge that Drew_theist has? I'm not defending Drew_theist's behavior, in a way I think he deserves it, but I this is wrong.
Here are the reasons I'm against it:
1. I just don't want to look at a swastika! Isn't there an image that gets the point across without a swastika on it?
2. This will stigmatize anyone who has the badge.
3. This could drive off theist.
So what do you think?
[MOD ANSWER: DREW HAS THE BADGE BECAUSE HE ASKED FOR IT.]
Offline Gauche wrote:If you throw out a nazi salute you're labeling yourself as a nazi.I've seen several people do such a thing as a joke, or sarcasticly, or to mock another, or even just to irritate someone with whom they disagree. That does not mean they are labeling themself as a nazi nor that anyone has a right to brand them as such. Just my opinion, but then again, that is all I have to go by.
I hear what you're saying but you have to take it in context. In this context the guy threw out a nazi salute and asked for a badge.
There are twists of time and space, of vision and reality, which only a dreamer can divine
H.P. Lovecraft
Offline Vessel wrote:I have not seen as of yet the reasoning for the badge or who is actually responsible for applying it.
I believe it was Sapient who applied it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he said something like, "Wish granted" when drew_theist asked for a badge after calling us Nazis. Sapient was definitely provoked. As for his exact reasons, that's for him to tell us.
Well, asking for such a badge would change the situation entirely. Even if you are asking for it only in a mocking way it is a good lesson to be careful what you ask for. If that is the case then it is not such a terrbile thing. Still nothing I would ever do as I think it belittles the holocaust to apply such a badge so haphazardly, but not the at all the disgusting tactic it at first appeared to be. DrewTheist should also have been honest and admitted he requested it in the thread Mr.Rage referenced.
“Philosophers have argued for centuries about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, but materialists have always known it depends on whether they are jitterbugging or dancing cheek to cheek" -- Tom Robbins
Offline So, what's with the Nazi badge that Drew_theist has? I'm not defending Drew_theist's behavior, in a way I think he deserves it, but I this is wrong. Here are the reasons I'm against it: 1. I just don't want to look at a swastika! Isn't there an image that gets the point across without a swastika on it? 2. This will stigmatize anyone who has the badge. 3. This could drive off theist. So what do you think?
Oh boy, here we go again.
Insted of assuming the intent of the use, why not ask the person using it.
I've been accused of ignoring the suffering of native americans because I chose to suport the "Washington Redskins".
Hillbilly Atheist has been accused of being a racist because he uses the Rebel Flag.
If the users context is that he actuall blatantly supports that sick tyrant, then you'd be correct in blasting him.
But, I have said "Seig Hiel" at work to a boss joking that they were being bossy. If this person is an atheist, my guess is that it is a slap in the face to theist saying, "DONT BE SO FUCKING BOSSY"
So without knowing the exact context of the usage, I cant determine either way weither this should be used or not.
Some blacks are comfortable using the word "nigger" while others arnt. My Christian friends who have said, "Your going to burn in hell" I dont take offense to because they know me. I would take offense if someone I dont know pre judges me and truely doesnt want me to exist.
So insted of suggesting it shouldnt be used at all, I would take into account WHY it is being used and ask the person using WHY.
Context is important. But to say "Never" is politicall correctness and silencing "offensive" things is worse than bigotry itself because without free speech bigotry can be and will be used by the goverment and when it gets to that point anyone outside that power can and will be opressed.
Just ask the person why they are using it and DONT MAKE ASSUMPTIONS.
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Offline So insted of suggesting it shouldnt be used at all, I would take into account WHY it is being used and ask the person using WHY.
That's why I started this thread. I want to know why.
Context is important. But to say "Never" is politicall correctness and silencing "offensive" things is worse than bigotry itself because without free speech bigotry can be and will be used by the goverment and when it gets to that point anyone outside that power can and will be opressed.
I completely agree. That's why I said there has to be a really good reason for this.
Just ask the person why they are using it and DONT MAKE ASSUMPTIONS.
I did and he said it wasn't his idea.
Offline Hello Mr.Rage,
I'm sorry to hear your not so miffed anymore about the fact they branded me with a Swatiska a symbol of immense evil that almost everyone finds offensive. I am at a loss to figure out your logic.
I wrote in response to:
Quote:On the agenda is a restriction of account that will be placed on theists to disallow them to post in our haven of freethought as well as a few other forums.
So you’ve answered my question, in your opinion a person can’t be a freethinker and a theist. But sure tell me where I can get my badge with a star on it and I’ll wear it. Seig Heil!
You are correct I told them I'd be happy to wear the star of David (not the damned Swatiska). As you may recall it was the Nazis that used the Star of David to mark out Jews for eventual extinction.
So do you think I deserve to be branded so for a flip remark I made?
BTW if the mark or badge persists you are right I'll move on and I guess thats what the powers that be are hoping for, a nice group hug with no diversity or dissension, just like the Nazi's wanted...
Offline Hello Mr.Rage,I'm sorry to hear your not so miffed anymore about the fact they branded me with a Swatiska a symbol of immense evil that almost everyone finds offensive. I am at a loss to figure out your logic.I wrote in response to:Quote:On the agenda is a restriction of account that will be placed on theists to disallow them to post in our haven of freethought as well as a few other forums.
So you’ve answered my question, in your opinion a person can’t be a freethinker and a theist. But sure tell me where I can get my badge with a star on it and I’ll wear it. Seig Heil!
You are correct I told them I'd be happy to wear the star of David (not the damned Swatiska). As you may recall it was the Nazis that used the Star of David to mark out Jews for eventual extinction.
So do you think I deserve to be branded so for a flip remark I made?
BTW if the mark or badge persists you are right I'll move on and I guess thats what the powers that be are hoping for, a nice group hug with no diversity or dissension, just like the Nazi's wanted...
I agree with you DrewTheist, as painful as that is. Looks like this is where I leave this board as I can't agree with this kind of branding of people. You have been nothing but a pain in the ass, ignorant of the subjects you attempt to discuss, but that is not reason for something such as being branded a nazi. I find it not only insulting to holocaust victims but a childish and irrational act to label a person in this way. Anyway, even though I have no respect for your position or your ability to argue a point, I can not continue to participate on this board due to the insulting label you have been forced to endure. Later.
“Philosophers have argued for centuries about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, but materialists have always known it depends on whether they are jitterbugging or dancing cheek to cheek" -- Tom Robbins
Offline I was going to suggest you should contact someone ans tell 'em to cut it out. But leaving is easier I guess.
I'm not going to PM my agreement just because one tucan has pms.
Offline Drew_theist,
What I was a little less miffed about is I thought this badge was going to be a regular thing. You got this badge because your exasperating posts.
Just because I'm not as miffed, doesn't mean I'm not miffed at all. I still think it was a wrong move on the part of Sapient. My original three points hold. I'll add a fourth as it's driving away people like Vessel.
Let me be clear. I want the swastika badge gone.
Offline Vessel,
I wish you wouldn't leave over this. I think it's better to stay to be a good influence, and try to make sure this doesn't happen again. If this became a common thing that we couldn't do anything about, then leaving is a good option. I don't think this that case. We make mistakes, and we learn from them. Leaving doesn't help though, it just makes things worse.
There's been a few theist pushing our buttons around her lately. We need to weather this without being as petty as they are.
Offline I got this badge because I am a theist. If being exasperating merited such a badge we'd all have one sooner or later...I guess this is the 'final solution' to the theist problem.
Offline I got this badge because I am a theist. If being exasperating merited such a badge we'd all have one sooner or later...I guess this is the 'final solution' to the theist problem.
You're the first theist that I've seen with the badge. I hope your the last. We all know the implications here, you don't have to rub it in. I want the badge removed, damn it!
Are any of the mods/core members reading this?
Offline Just my opinion but leaving the forum over that bullshit is stupid.
When europeans came to this country they reduced the native population from an estimated 12-15 million to less than a million. It's estimated that between 30-40 million africans died in the middle passage.
Since world war II the united states has bombed over fourty countries.
In light of all that wich is worse than the holocaust by a factor of at least ten you're not leaving the country are you?
There are twists of time and space, of vision and reality, which only a dreamer can divine
H.P. Lovecraft
Offline I got this badge because I am a theist. If being exasperating merited such a badge we'd all have one sooner or later...I guess this is the 'final solution' to the theist problem.
No, you got that badge because you were behaving like an asshole. That doesn't necessarily mean I agree you should have been branded.
You see, there's this big, huge thing called a "gray area" that I didn't know existed when I was a theist. It means that you were wrong, but that the moderator who gave you the badge was also wrong.
Just because you got your eye blacked doesn't mean you didn't black some eyes of your own. Repeatedly.
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Offline I got this badge because I am a theist. If being exasperating merited such a badge we'd all have one sooner or later...I guess this is the 'final solution' to the theist problem.
No, you got that badge because you were behaving like an asshole. That doesn't necessarily mean I agree you should have been branded.
You see, there's this big, huge thing called a "gray area" that I didn't know existed when I was a theist. It means that you were wrong, but that the moderator who gave you the badge was also wrong.
Just because you got your eye blacked doesn't mean you didn't black some eyes of your own. Repeatedly.
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Offline I got this badge because I am a theist.
You are the only theist with this badge... get over your damn myrterdom complex.
I'm not going to PM my agreement just because one tucan has pms.
Offline Vessel, I wish you wouldn't leave over this. I think it's better to stay to be a good influence, and try to make sure this doesn't happen again. If this became a common thing that we couldn't do anything about, then leaving is a good option. I don't think this that case. We make mistakes, and we learn from them. Leaving doesn't help though, it just makes things worse. There's been a few theist pushing our buttons around her lately. We need to weather this without being as petty as they are.
I'd like to second this.
Because I tend to get very angry with theists, it would be nice to have a moderating influence here. Otherwise, I am worried about losing my center. If RRS is going to fly, it needs some people with patience, logic and no fundy background. I don't know if you have the fundy background, Vessel, but you seem to have patience and compassion.
In most situations I am not too worried about letting myself get too radical, but because I was wounded during my fundy experience, I have to keep an eye on myself. If people like you stick around to call me on my bullshit, I would feel better about sticking around.
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Offline Hmmm...I'd still really like to hear Sapient's take on this even after analyzing the exchange.
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Offline In all fairness I think it should be said that Drew_Theist was the one who called RRS nazis and said sieg heil in the forum.
If you don't want to be called a nazi then why throw out a nazi salute?
the point i think he was making was the theist spotting badges are analagous to the stars of david nazis forced jews to wear. he was calling rrs nazis, and i think his "heiling" was facetious. other people have made this point. wow, i had no idea the nazi sign was actually a possible badge.
Offline If you throw out a nazi salute you're labeling yourself as a nazi.
or maybe you're not. he explained that he was not, but he still has a perpetual label given by the "rational" response squad.
Offline Just ask the person why they are using it and DONT MAKE ASSUMPTIONS.
no explanations from any moderator so far...
Offline Brian37 wrote:Just ask the person why they are using it and DONT MAKE ASSUMPTIONS.
no explanations from any moderator so far...
Well, you know how busy cult leaders and their minions get. I'll tell you what... why not discuss how labels get aberrant definitions propagated by people who simply want to be jerks?
OR
How jerks get aberrant labels?
OR
How labels can be a symbol of a kind of respect versus a kind of disrespect?
OR
Why am I dignifying this discussion by posting in the hope of making people look at the WHY reason for the label?
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Offline hello wrote:Brian37 wrote:Just ask the person why they are using it and DONT MAKE ASSUMPTIONS.
no explanations from any moderator so far...
Well, you know how busy cult leaders and their minions get. I'll tell you what... why not discuss how labels get aberrant definitions propagated by people who simply want to be jerks?
OR
How jerks get aberrant labels?
OR
How labels can be a symbol of a kind of respect versus a kind of disrespect?
OR
Why am I dignifying this discussion by posting in the hope of making people look at the WHY reason for the label?
We know why he got the badge. I don't know why I even stuck up for him, especially when he claimed he got the badge for being a theist, instead of his bullying behavior. I'm more concerned about how this appears. Drew_theist could go off claiming some sort of moral victory with this, and I don't want him to have it.
Offline Gauche wrote:In all fairness I think it should be said that Drew_Theist was the one who called RRS nazis and said sieg heil in the forum.
If you don't want to be called a nazi then why throw out a nazi salute?
the point i think he was making was the theist spotting badges are analagous to the stars of david nazis forced jews to wear. he was calling rrs nazis, and i think his "heiling" was facetious. other people have made this point. wow, i had no idea the nazi sign was actually a possible badge.
The theist spotting badges don't even come close to the Star of David patches. Whether you like them or not, there not meant to stigmatize theist. Hell, most of the theist are pretty proud to be theist, so they shouldn't have any problem with it. If Drew_theist was was complaining about them, I'm inclined to think he was just whining.
Offline Well, I'm not opposed to calling a theist a theist (i.e. the theist spotting tags) though I honestly don't see the benefit of them. People's true motives ALWAYS come to the surface.
Now the add on of the swastika, I'm a little less cool with. I'd like an explaination for that one.
I'd actually propose replacing the "theist spotting" tag with something a bit more fun, like "God Warrior". We all know the reference, we all know the lady is nutty, we can take the tag as a term of jocularity and endearment then, not as a some sort of stigma. Then number the rest of us on the level of Hell we're going to 
I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. - Richard Dawkins
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Offline You have been nothing but a pain in the ass, ignorant of the subjects you attempt to discuss, but that is not reason for something such as being branded a nazi.
Agreed Vessel, and I like all of the views the atheists are expressing here. He wasn't branded a Nazi because he was one, he was branded one because he asked to be.
I find it not only insulting to holocaust victims but a childish and irrational act to label a person in this way.
I have a few (all diseased now) family members that managed to live through nazi encampment and one that was killed.
I can not continue to participate on this board due to the insulting label you have been forced to endure. Later.
He wasn't forced, he asked. And goodbye, we'll miss your wisdom.
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Offline hello wrote:The theist spotting badges don't even come close to the Star of David patches. Whether you like them or not, there not meant to stigmatize theist. Hell, most of the theist are pretty proud to be theist, so they shouldn't have any problem with it. If Drew_theist was was complaining about them, I'm inclined to think he was just whining.Gauche wrote:In all fairness I think it should be said that Drew_Theist was the one who called RRS nazis and said sieg heil in the forum.
If you don't want to be called a nazi then why throw out a nazi salute?
the point i think he was making was the theist spotting badges are analagous to the stars of david nazis forced jews to wear. he was calling rrs nazis, and i think his "heiling" was facetious. other people have made this point. wow, i had no idea the nazi sign was actually a possible badge.
the connection isn't difficult to make although the circumstances are very different. How many Nazis must have said, well they're proud to be Jews, right? what are they meant to do if not stigmatize?
i like yellow number five's suggestion much better. ah, the power of communication. of course the caveat is that if a theist is not a warrior, and that is not condemning us all to hell, he might take offense to being identified with other god warriors.
Offline Well, I'm not opposed to calling a theist a theist (i.e. the theist spotting tags) though I honestly don't see the benefit of them. People's true motives ALWAYS come to the surface.
Now the add on of the swastika, I'm a little less cool with. I'd like an explaination for that one.
I'd actually propose replacing the "theist spotting" tag with something a bit more fun, like "God Warrior". We all know the reference, we all know the lady is nutty, we can take the tag as a term of jocularity and endearment then, not as a some sort of stigma. Then number the rest of us on the level of Hell we're going to
Nice. We'd all get a Dante's Inferno ranking.
I appreciate all the work that goes into the badges, but I think we should reconsider them, and how we use them.
"Hitler burned people like Anne Frank, for that we call him evil.
"God" burns Anne Frank eternally. For that, theists call him 'good.'
Offline I got this badge because I am a theist.
No liar, you got it because you asked.
Let this be a lesson to anyone who wants to be on this board, don't ever ask to be banned in any variant of that, because your wish will be granted immediatly.
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Offline I want the badge removed, damn it! Are any of the mods/core members reading this?
Mr Rage, let me know your thoughts after reading the truth as to why he got his badge. If you feel the same, the mods will STRONGLY consider, however Drew isn't far from being banned from trolling.
If you had your choice rage, which would you choose:
1. He stays with the badge.
2. Both he and the badge are gone.
I know it's a tough choice (or maybe it isn't), I want to know.
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Offline "
Let this be a lesson to anyone who wants to be on this board, don't ever ask to be banned in any variant of that, because your wish will be granted immediatly."
thank you, teacher. now is the label still necessary?
Offline Just my opinion but leaving the forum over that bullshit is stupid.
Ding Ding Ding you win the prize.
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Offline Vote for Democrats to save us all from the anti-American Republican party!
Offline Todangst and Yellow feel free to weigh in on the private mod discussion on the badge.
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Offline MrRage wrote:I want the badge removed, damn it! Are any of the mods/core members reading this?
Mr Rage, let me know your thoughts after reading the truth as to why he got his badge. If you feel the same, the mods will STRONGLY consider, however Drew isn't far from being banned from trolling.
If you had your choice rage, which would you choose:
1. He stays with the badge.
2. Both he and the badge are gone.
I know it's a tough choice (or maybe it isn't), I want to know.
I think he's already gone, so I'd choose 2.
I understand why he got the badge, although he did ask for a Star of David. I'm not so keen on defending him after he claimed he got it for being a theist. I understand how infuriating Drew_theist was, because I was arguing with him in a thread. He's basically a troll.
I just think there's more thought that needs to go into the badges. I don't want to see people like Vessel go, and I don't want Drew_theist to think he has some sort of moral victory. I'd rather he leave with his ass whipped.
Offline the connection isn't difficult to make although the circumstances are very different. How many Nazis must have said, well they're proud to be Jews, right?
Yes, everyone likes to rush and compare anything they don't like to Hitler and the Nazis. Maybe what this needs is an invocation of Godwin's Law. The Nazi's made them wear badges to humiliate them. That's the difference.
what are they meant to do if not stigmatize?
Identification, so people can get their bearings around here. Somehow I think you've heard that before though.
Offline I think he's already gone, so I'd choose 2.
Out of respect for you, consider it done.
I understand why he got the badge, although he did ask for a Star of David.
Yup, we admittedly missed the mark there.
I understand how infuriating Drew_theist was, because I was arguing with him in a thread. He's basically a troll.
He didn't infuriate me at all, he just was a troll. However we like granting a lot of leeway in that area.
I just think there's more thought that needs to go into the badges.
Enough thought went into it man.
I don't want to see people like Vessel go, and I don't want Drew_theist to think he has some sort of moral victory.
Agreed.
I'd rather he leave with his ass whipped.
He did. He got his ass whipped over and over.
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Offline star. star = star of david, not swastika.
if he was trolling, he should be banned because of that; this label should have nothing to do with your practice for removing posters. so you had in fact a third, obvious option- let him stay, and remove the swastika which he did not in fact ask for. if he was to be removed, that should be on different (you know, rational) grounds.
I think if the RRS is responsible for labeling him with that badge against his will I have no more use for this site. Such a thing is inexcusable. I will however reserve judgement until the RRS has offered a response as to whether they are responsible for the badge or not.
“Philosophers have argued for centuries about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, but materialists have always known it depends on whether they are jitterbugging or dancing cheek to cheek" -- Tom Robbins
Can you set your own badges? Drew_theist said in this thread that the badge wasn't his idea. Also, the badge is being hosted on rationalresponders.com.
I agree. I want to hear an official explanation of this badge before making any decisions. That's why I started this thread. But do hope it gets pulled, or, if it doesn't, I hope theres a really good reason for it.
MrRage, you're probably right.
When it comes to theists, I have no patience, probably because of all the crap they put me through. For that reason, I have begun to make an informal decision that I should not engage theists in debate.
drew_theist and a few others have really pissed me off. Of course, that's to be expected, theists being what they are. It is precisely for that reason that I shouldn't be engaging theists. Of course they're going to push my buttons when they dredge up stuff that triggers memories of the past.
I was planning on staying behind the scenes for the most part, helping with things that needed to be done so people with more level heads could engage the theists. If no one here has a level head, I'd get caught up in the furor pretty quickly and lose all sense of perspective.
I don't want that.
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Hmmm. It is a badge, isn't it? I was thinking it was a picture he may have placed there himself but being as that it is above the theist label it appears it is a badge. Pretty sad. I wonder if the person that attached that badge to him would have tattooed a serial number on his arm, or branded him, if they had the ability to touch him physically? Seems a pretty nazi-like move to start branding people with hateful labels no matter how much of an idiot they have shown themself to be.
“Philosophers have argued for centuries about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, but materialists have always known it depends on whether they are jitterbugging or dancing cheek to cheek" -- Tom Robbins
In all fairness I think it should be said that Drew_Theist was the one who called RRS nazis and said sieg heil in the forum.
If you don't want to be called a nazi then why throw out a nazi salute?
There are twists of time and space, of vision and reality, which only a dreamer can divine
H.P. Lovecraft
Calling someone a nazi in a conversation is one thing. Branding them with a permanent label in front of an entire community is completely different. Drew theist is a childish moronic theist who runs away from arguments when he realizes he has lost, as is evident in the debate thread he started. That is no reason for such vile tactics as branding him a nazi. When the people who run a site start to take such steps it stops being a forum for free thought and becomes a breeding ground for hate.
Of course, the RRS owns this site and can do as they please. That though does not mean it is right or that I should have any respect for someone who would do such a thing. Again, that is all assuming that they do not have what I would consider a sufficient reason. I have not seen as of yet the reasoning for the badge or who is actually responsible for applying it.
“Philosophers have argued for centuries about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, but materialists have always known it depends on whether they are jitterbugging or dancing cheek to cheek" -- Tom Robbins
Yeah, I was going to edit my post to point this out. Not only did he say, "Sieg, Heil!" and call us Nazis, he also asked for a badge. So, in a way, he asked for it. He's been a complete shit.
Still, should he have been branded thusly? I've always been worried about becoming too radical. Call it a leftover from being thoroughly brainwashed. *shrug* I just want to make sure that the people who run RRS stay balanced.
Me? I don't have much patience with theists, so I exempt myself from any position of power on this site. Those with power have an awesome responsibility. They are only human, so a fuck-up or two is to be expected.
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Drew_theist pissed me off too. There seems to have been an influx of people here trying to push our buttons. (Disclaimer: I'm not lumping all theists in with this group.) Maybe this badge as a response to this button pushing, but I don't think we should stoop to that level.
If you throw out a nazi salute you're labeling yourself as a nazi.
I believe it was Sapient who applied it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he said something like, "Wish granted" when drew_theist asked for a badge after calling us Nazis. Sapient was definitely provoked. As for his exact reasons, that's for him to tell us.
But yeah, sinking to the level of childish theists probably isn't very smart. Sigh. Again, I don't have the patience to deal with them. If there are to be sites like this, we need to make sure the moderators DO have patience, otherwise it just devolves into nastiness. I don't want that and I wouldn't trust myself in such a situation.
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Well if he asked for it, that changes things. It also makes him somewhat a liar (see the thread I linked to above).
Can we have a link to thread were he did all this?
Edit: Here's the thread in question.
2nd Edit: From the above thread:
Seems he didn't ask for the Swastika, but the Start of David. Anyway, I'm not so miffed by this anymore. I was afraid this was going to be some sort of trend.
I've seen several people do such a thing as a joke, or sarcasticly, or to mock another, or even just to irritate someone with whom they disagree. That does not mean they are labeling themself as a nazi nor that anyone has a right to brand them as such. Just my opinion, but then again, that is all I have to go by.
“Philosophers have argued for centuries about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, but materialists have always known it depends on whether they are jitterbugging or dancing cheek to cheek" -- Tom Robbins
I agree...see other post. If I can't maintain some level of calmness when confronted with theist assholes, I shouldn't be debating them. I think the same goes for moderators--even more so. At the same time, expecting perfection may be a little much. Let's hear what Sapient has to say.
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