I'm feeling pretty down about what looks like another lost friendship.
Offline http://tinyurl.com/2ju7ly <---previous thread
I still haven't heard from her. I sent her an e-mail last night--just a brief, "Hey, look at this funny ad"--and she still won't respond. I'm thinking a couple of things:
- She's punishing me for spilling my guts to her about a lost friendship with my music teacher. After he promised he wouldn't proselytize me, he caught me at a very vulnerable time and really put the pressure on. He would not apologize and in fact said he might do the same thing again. I pulled away from the friendship because I realized I wasn't "safe" in that relationship.
- I think my friend may be comparing the current situation with what happened with my music teacher, but there are a couple of key differences:
- I apologized and told her I'd try my best not to do it again.
- We didn't have a pre-existing verbal or written contract to not talk about such things. Out of consideration for each other we rarely broached the subject, but on the day I brought it up, I was feeling especially upset with religion.
- An obvious conclusion one can draw from atheism is that there is no afterlife. Of course, this has been debated even among atheists, but if we're honest with ourselves we have to admit that we really can't expect an afterlife and that conducting this life as if there were an afterlife is intellectually dishonest.
- My friend's brother died less than a year ago and she is distraught. I don't think she can face the fact that she'll never see him again.
- My friend is a paraplegic / double amputee (legs) in a wheelchair. She's finding this life miserable to a large degree and wants to look forward to something better. I shat all over that idea when I said Christianity has been disproven.
One thing is really bothering me, though: She won't even say 1) if there is a problem or 2) exactly what the problem is. She's just been incommunicado.
I'm just so goddamn sick of religion getting in the way of my life. If people aren't actively condeming me or trying to re-convert me back to fundamentalism, they're getting pissy because I have the audacity to express an opinion which offends them.
I've tried hard to look at this situation objectively, but I don't know what else I could do to rectify the situation. It's part of what has made me so angry lately. I'm just so goddamn fucking SICK of simultaneously being pressured to convert and having to walk on eggs to please the theists. Around here I don't have to walk on eggs to please theists, so I guess I've been letting them have it with both barrels (which is what I wish I could do to fundies IRL). Yeah, I'm pissed. And confused. And upset. And everything.
Does anyone have any ideas?
Books on atheism, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server.
- Login to post comments
Offline It's shocking. Would people stop being friends with someone else because they differed in opinions on a movie or a band? Or because one believed in something irrational besides religion? (alien abduction, psychics, etc)
I think part of the problem for people on both sides of the issue is that adherence to religion--especially fundamentalist religion--doesn't exist in isolation. Fundamentalism affects opinions on movies, bands, alien abduction, politics, etc. When you are friends with a fundamentalist, you aren't really befriending a real person. The personalities of fundies become subsumed by their religion. I'm sure you've heard these gems:
"He must increase; I must decrease."
"I am crucified with Christ; nevertheless, I live, but not me. Christ liveth in me."
"Jesus first; others second; yourself last." Acronym for "JOY"
Now, this isn't so much the case with moderate, liberal or nominal Christians. That's why I don't mind being friends with them. As for fundies, I have enough of those people in my life without befriending them. My fundy friend also taught me that fundies really can't be trusted because their religion twists them into something they are not.
“Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” -- Steven Weinberg
My mother, my music teacher and others must suppress their real personalities in order to be fundamentalist Christians.
As for this friend, I think she is pissed that I rained on her "life-after-death" beliefs, but I could be wrong. She isn't speaking up, so I can only guess. I went through a period of time when I mourned my loss of belief in life after death. I think I probably still have some mourning to do because I was raised to believe--really believe--in an afterlife. Facing the finality of death can be excruciating.
Books on atheism, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server.
- Login to post comments
Offline Sam Harris gave a speech at a FFRF convention that was printed in Freethought Today - it works for me too. What if I went around thinking I was 6 feet tall? (I'm actually 5'4"
I would feel better if I was 6 feet tall - tall people have been shown to be happier, earn more and be more succesful with the opposite sex. So I could go around believing I was actually 6' tall, and get angry at all the people of average height who point out they can easily see over my head.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
- Login to post comments
Offline Well, I certainly hope she hasn't ended her relationship with you. This makes no sense, even from a Christian perspective. Mind you, I suppose I don't think as 'fundementalists' do, but if she really cared about you and wanted to show the love of God in hopes that one day you may come to know Him...it seems counterproductive to me for her to abandon you.
I obtained my Black Belt in History. Don't mess with this Master Historian.
- Login to post comments
Offline This amounts to a metaphorical "face space".
When someone is nose to nose with you uninvited it is uncomfortable. Weither we are talking about an issue or actuall physical proxsimity(sp).
I had to break off my relationship with my brother for the same reason. It had nothing to do with not wanting a relationship with him. But that every time we were together he had to preach. I told him that if he wanted to debate that was one thing, but I will not be preached at.
I wouldnt feel bad about it at all. You should not have to worry about someone wanting to verbaly be your parent. It isnt the teachers roll to do anything but teach you the subject of the class. If they chose to ingauge you into extra caricular converesation then at that point they are not a teacher.
Your friend should also understant that you dont owe anyone submission merely because of a label. If they cannot back up the claims they make, you as well as I know that that does not mean you hate them. Your friend should understand this. If they dont, then that is their hang up, do not make their problems yours.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
- Login to post comments
Offline I'm just so goddamn sick of religion getting in the way of my life. If people aren't actively condeming me or trying to re-convert me back to fundamentalism, they're getting pissy because I have the audacity to express an opinion which offends them.
I've tried hard to look at this situation objectively, but I don't know what else I could do to rectify the situation. It's part of what has made me so angry lately. I'm just so goddamn fucking SICK of simultaneously being pressured to convert and having to walk on eggs to please the theists. Around here I don't have to walk on eggs to please theists, so I guess I've been letting them have it with both barrels (which is what I wish I could do to fundies IRL). Yeah, I'm pissed. And confused. And upset. And everything.
Does anyone have any ideas?
I've learned to allow people to live in their delusions... deep down... i believe most people believe either because they do not want to face reality or because they do not want to face confrontation as we do.
In your friend's case - she needs her delusion to give her hope... i realize this kind of hope isn't necessary for the overwhelming majority of people in the world... but... if she is isolated and depressed... this delusion may be all that she is hanging on to.
making her realize her delusion is in fact a delusion will only encourage her to isolate herself further.
i'm not one for defending the silly "belief in belief"... however... i do awcknowledge that belief in a delusion IS helpful to a minute group of people - which your friend may be a part of.
Anyone that knows me knows I am a hardcore outspoken Atheist - because of such - I assume anyone whom NEEDS their delusion will avoid me.
When I talk to a religious person whom is depressed - i pay close attention to the words they use. If they say something to the affect of, "At least Christ has been there for me." - I know this person is desperatly hanging onto the delusion - and i let it be. If they say, "I wish I knew where God was or what he plans in my life" - I know they're doubting the delusion - and give them advice from my atheistic perspective and heart.
- Login to post comments
Offline Get out that fucking place. This shit is not put up with anywhere outside of the red states of America or (it is remarkably worrying to make this comparison) Saudi Arabia.
"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.
-Me
- Login to post comments
Offline Get out that fucking place. This shit is not put up with anywhere outside of the red states of America or (it is remarkably worrying to make this comparison) Saudi Arabia.
I agree. There are better places to live, with better resources. You do have options.
You dont have to put up with this crap. Its coming at you from all sides. Frankly it amazes me that youve put up with it for so long. There is more to life than this.
We must favor verifiable evidence over private feeling. Otherwise we leave ourselves vulnerable to those who would obscure the truth.
~ Richard Dawkins
- Login to post comments
It's shocking. Would people stop being friends with someone else because they differed in opinions on a movie or a band? Or because one believed in something irrational besides religion? (alien abduction, psychics, etc)
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
What kind of friend would "punish" someone for spilling his or her guts? Isn't that part of what friends are for?
It sound like your friend has been dealt a crappy hand in life. While absolutely an atheist myself, I can certainly see the allure of an afterlife where you can see old friends/family members again, and any "disadvantages"(please forgive me if I'm using un-PC terminology here, I mean no disrespect) would be removed once and for all. I had a friend die last Tuesday. I think I felt worse than most people at the services, because(he was a non-practicing jew with a side of christianity) his family at least believed that they would see him again one day. I held no such belief, and that made it that much harder to accept he was gone. Many people can't handle that concept, and it's part of the reason that humans created religion in the first place.
Only because you asked for suggestions; I would say leave it be. You seem to have extended an olive branch from every conceivable angle, and it hasnt gotten you anywhere. It's hard to lose a friend, but you can't force someone to be friends with you. Maybe she'll come around, maybe she won't, but like Susan said, you've gained many friends here who would never shut you out because of your heathen-esque tendencies
Well, take comfort in the fact that-- despite all the hype about the prominent role evangelicals have played in the current administration, and about the mega-churches and their t.v. programs-- they're losing. Every gay marriage vote that gets on a ballot(even ones that lose), every church that closes due to lack of attendance, every advancement in science that further pushes the fundamentalist mindset into obsolescence(has there ever been a scientific discovery that provided any support to a religious claim?), and every new survey that shows the non-religious as one of the fastest growing, er, religious groups means one more step in the right direction.
It's hard, but you sleep better at night, because you're being honest with yourself and everyone else, even if they dont like it. Is there anything worse than a life lived according to what someone else tells you to do?
"The powerful have always created false images of the weak."