Nudity
Offline I have recently had a conversation with someone about this topic. Actually, more about indecent exposure. I have been living in Oregon and nudity is something you will see alot of if you go to any swimming hole. The conflict I had with this person was not derived from a religion, he's an atheist, but he feels that any nudity out where someone might see is considered indecent. Makes me think of the lady on the Simpsons who always exclaims, "Think of the children!" In my opinion, nudity is not indecent but actions can be. If people are swimming and getting out and drying off, I don't feel offended and if their body is not something I want to look at I can easily utilize the muscles in my neck and turn my head in an opposite direction. So, what about the children? Are my own children at traumatic risk of seeing a nude person? I personally, have tried to teach my kids that their bodies are nothing to be ashamed of. So I would really appreciate any input from my fellow freethinkers. Thanks!
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I agree.
I also agree, mean nudity is not obscene, actions can be. I also agree that if you don't want to look, you can turn your head. The idea that nudity is shocking and wrong seems to be a vestige of the Victorian era. (Back then nudity was considered so horrible that the "correct" way for a couple to procreate was with their pajamas on. A "proper" husband and wife would never see eachother totally nude.) Ridiculous eh?
I agree. Nudity is nothing will not cause children's faces to melt. There's nothing wrong with it. If you're not comfortable with your own body, then don't show off your body. If you are comfortable with it, feel free in the appropriate situations.
i gotta go with you on this one Martha. Everyone in this culture is so obsessed with the human body being this automatically sexual thing he minute it's naked. I was raised in a very nude friendly house. Mom was always naked, and so were me and my brother. SO many people I tell think it's weird or that I must be all messed up from it. It was completely normal. Seeing naked people will not mess up anyone's kids. We're all naked under our clothes.
One thing that pisses me off is places that make nursing mothers go and hide in a bathroom to breastfeed. I don't want to watch that shit, but man, I just look away. Don't make her feed her kid in some dingy bathroom! GAH! Oh noes, some kids might SEE HER BOOB!!!!??? There's a kid attatched to her boob, man, it's not gonna mess them up. If they ask, then say, "she's feeding her baby, honey." Simple, no?
Sorry, haha I'll stop ranting. The naked thing is a HUGE pet peeve of mine. It always boggles my mind.
I see no reason why nudity should be offensive and/or illegal. For we have in the first amendment freedom of expression which nudity clearly falls under. It seems this made up freedom of not being offended trumps freedom of expression somehow.
It's always bothered me, even when i had faith (never really truly believed in a god of sorts mostly just believed in having faith , my mothers fault (she sees nothing wrong with it *rolls eyes*). I mean we are naturally naked, therefore whats wrong with being natural? Of course we need to wear clothes in more extreme conditions so we don't freeze and/or have heat exhaustion ,but to deny people their right to be natural i public because of some peoples borderline hatred of the human body is absolutely absurd to me.
I hope in my lifetime we can someday be nude outside if we damn well please but the chance i think of this happening? basically zero. I'm a little to optmistic about people, I think.
On the note of why people don't like nudity, i think its because of christian mythology and how in the garden what did they do first thing they got "knowledge of good and bad"? They covered themselves up because it was bad. What the hell? God created you that way how can being yourself be bad? I wish someone could explain that utter illogical to me.
Well thats all i can think of, sorry for my rant.
Zach
Would you guys rather live in Burkhatown or a nudist colony?
the thing people seem to forget is that a baby's head IS HUMONGOUS! You Can't see a teat that is being feed on!
Yeah, my mom was always naked around me, my sis and brother. We never cared one way or another it was just my mom. My dad was always dancing around in his tighty-whitey's and I never thought much of that either except that it was funny the way he danced. I look at it like if you make something out of it, it makes it seem wrong. I was told that I could potentially traumatize my sons for being naked in the house. My kids just repeat what I say, "Mom's got a fat belly." They don't even care that I'm naked. My kids pretty much stayed naked during the summer months. We just don't make a big deal about it. It wasn't until I heard that point of view that I got a weird feeling about it. I think people who want to make something indecent about being nude are the ones with the problem. I have heard about people becoming squeamish about breast-feeding in public, but here I have never experienced that. It is truly accepted here. In fact if you opt to bottle-feed, people immediately want to know what sort of complications the mother must of had to prevent her from breast-feeding. But yeah, I agree, if you don't want to see it, turn away. I can't stand the way most people eat so I just don't look. I don't look at them with my eyes popped out and try to correct their gross eating habits- which in NO WAY compares to the beauty of a mother feeding her baby.
I think you should really visit Oregon someday...
And to American Atheist:
Nudist Colony for me because genitals aren't what offend me. It's when people are perverted and they act like an ankle showing is some hot porn that scares the crap out of me.
I consider myself a naturalist. Not only do I like nature and science, I like to be naked.
I'll fight for a person's right to speak so long as that person will, in return, fight to allow me to challenge their opinions and ridicule them as the content of their ideas merit.
I was just kidding. Its just that this thread reminded me of a blog from Atheism Sucks! in which Frank™ writes about Aaron Kinney saying that he would rather live in a nudist colony than Burkhatown.
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Nice.
I just wanted to answer that because I could almost see the person I had the debate with choosing Burkhatown.
Oh really? Whats so special about Oregon? If I may inquire.
Oh really? Whats so special about Oregon? If I may inquire.
Since I have lived here, there have been many gatherings of sorts. Well, people are really open here. They don't have a lot of the inhibitions I've seen in other places. It seems that people have the mentality that they are allowed to be naked and if you don't like it, leave.
I think that this point has already been implied, but I'll make it anyway.
The only reason nudity is shocking is because society has deemed it so. We have had the idea that nudity implies sexuality drilled into our heads form the day we were born.
People always think this is bullshit when I say it, but it's true... I love looking at the female body, but it's not always sexual. Don't get me wrong... I do enjoy sex... but I also think that the female form is one of the most breathtakingly beautiful things on Earth. I believe I've progressed to a point in my life where I am able to appreciate this beauty without becoming instantly aroused.
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Well, while we're talking about having things drilled into our heads, what's so bad about arousal?
Granted, it caused me some problems in High School Algebra, but on the whole, if you're in a setting where being naked is not inappropriate, so what if someone happens to think a sexual thought?
I, for one, rather like it when I find out someone thinks I'm hot -- naked or not. I know it's more of a pain in the ass for women, who are always being propositioned, etc... but that's how the thing works, you know?
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
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The female form is beautiful to me as well. The female mind is equally breathtaking particularly when that mind is devoid of religious delusion and neuroses.
However much I 'talk dirty' I don't get fully aroused until I hear "YES!"
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I would say the only problem with nudity is the problem with nudity. And it is a big problem.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
It's always nice to hear other guys say that intellect is an atractive quality in a woman. I actually know a few girls who have trouble meeting guys because they are TOO SMART.
I have a female friend who is absolutley beautiful. She has a graduate degree, knows everything about classical music, and is very politically active. She had a profile on Match.com for months and got no replies. Just for fun, she changed her profile to say that she likes to be quiet, laugh at what her boyfriends say, and make nachos for them while they watch football. She got THREE REPLIES THAT DAY!!!
When I heard this, I was suddenly ashamed to be a man.
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It all depends on your beliefs but Nudity in public that could be a problem You can tell me it's a great thing when the car accident rate increases
I wish someone would introduce me to some of these smart women.
I've met two women in my life who could twist me into knots in a light hearted debate. I married one and dated the other for four and a half years. (not at the same time of course. That wouldn't be very smart.)
I'm sad for your friend. I can honestly say I understand, though. It's not that I'm some kind of consumate genius. I'm no dummy, but there are lots of people who are smarter than me. Unfortunately, not many of them happen to be available women living in the bible belt in the good ol' U.S. of A.
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You can have a wife and a girlfriend at the same time. Just make sure they are both aware of it and are ok with it. It's called polyamory.
To make sure I'm on topic; naked women are indeed a beautiful sight. I think I'll go look at some.
Shaun
I'll fight for a person's right to speak so long as that person will, in return, fight to allow me to challenge their opinions and ridicule them as the content of their ideas merit.
First time I went to Portland my friend and I went up one block to see a parade. Sure enough there were boobies. People will get used to nudity like they got used to exposed ankles and two piece swimsuits. There will always be that small segment of the population that will abhor any glimpse of female sexuality (hence our current movie rating system).
I never understood why it's acceptable for a male to go topless but not a woman. We both have nipples but one sex can actually use theirs for a productive purpose so Christian morality demands that use be considered shameful.
Technically that would only be a problem because nudity is shunned. If being naked was a generally common thing then it wouldn't attract attention. The porn industry would hate it though.
*Conspiracy theory*
Maybe that's why it's so shunned. The porn industry is making nudity look bad so it can make more money. If nakedness was common, Playboy would die. You think they don't have the power? Look at VHS. > >
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Who doesn't find girls hot?
I think people should be able to breatfeed in public. When my mom made me go to church once, the sunday school teacher did it in class... No blanket or anything. Surprising, seeing as how it WAS a church.
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That would be Ted Haggard and other closeted Bible thumping homophobes. Shakespeare said something like, "The lady doeth protest too much." It may as well apply to the fundies who figure if they can advertise how much they hate something it will hide how much they sexually obsess about something.
Although I have many women friends, I must admit that I don't find them "hot". However, if you'd like to talk about certain shirtless fellows, I'm all ears.
Seriously, there's so much puritanical stuff here in the U.S. and it's been drilled into so many. If everyone were nude, no one would think anything of it.
Quick joke. What's the difference between nude and naked? Nude means "No clothes." Naked means "Surprise! No clothes!"
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I personally think that it would be far more traumatic to instill self-shame in a child than allowing them to see nudity. It boggles my mind why so many people seem to think that shame is a nessecity. How does shame benefit anyone?
Oh, and I agree with everyone here who said naked women are great. Really struck a chord with me, man.
Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine
You are correct there. Children don't have a problem with nudity but they do respond to parental and peer reactions. If a parent starts screaming and acting nuts because a child has been exposed to nudity the child will learn that nudity is something to be reviled.
The earliest moral dictate in the Bible is that people should be ashamed of being nude. It never made sense to me that Adam and Eve should feel the need to cover themselves since they were the only two people and already experienced plenty of nudity but the Bible really never made much sense.
Perhaps Christians encouraged clothing because it made it more difficult to get raped since rape was a common occurance in Christian societies.
I read somewhere that Oregon has a high percentage of freethinkers. Stephen Colbert has referred to Oregon as "California's Canada," "Washington's Mexico" and "Idaho's Portugal."
It sounds like a very cool place.
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Shouldn't it be Idaho's Japan?
I'll have to admit that because of the way I've lived my life, and because I grew up overweight and very embarassed to be seen without a shirt, I'm a little uneasy when it comes to nudity-but ideologically, I agree completely with Martha and everyone else here when it comes to nudity. I try to be open about it and not feel like it's wrong, because I don't think it is. It's like a natural reaction that I'm trying to break myself of. I live in Tennessee and guys go around here all the time without shirts on, but I've never been one to do it. I just can't feel that comfortable without being fully clothed, but that's because, again, I have appearance issues.
I like something I heard a while back-if we were meant to be naked, we would have been born that way. The reason I have the awkwardness I do is because a large portion of society treats it as a taboo, or at least that's part of it. We're animals, and while clothes do serve a purpose, they are by no means required at all times. I really wonder where in history the tradition began that we needed clothes to be decent. I know ancient Greece and what not treated nudity much more casually than we do now, so why the taboo? Was overpopulation becoming a problem so we had to put two extra barriers between each other's genitalia so it would be easier to reduce the urge to fornicate?
Oh, and to D-Cubed who mentioned Ted Haggard-he's not exactly closeted anymore.
Humanity needs compassion and knowledge-an end to bigotry and undue ignorance. Religion stands in the way of these and my other ideals so strongly that I can't think of a stance apart from atheism that will allow me to feel like a decent human being.