raising kids...
Offline ok, this sorta ties into another thread on how important is it for your significant other to be atheist. Ok, so what would you do if you're not lucky enough for your significant other to be an atheist. What if she/he wants to have kids. How would you raise them? Would you let your kids grow up being told there was a magical sky god that protected and loved them? If you didn't, what would you do if your kid came home from school one day and started asking you about this idea of god that she/he heard from other kids? If your sig. other insisted that they be raised in theism for the sake of fitting in with the other children and for holidays like easter and christmas, would you secretly tell your kid that that stuff is stupid behind your sig. other's back? I'm not planning on having kids anytime soon, but this is a question that has bugged me. Any of you have kids and are in this situation?
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I'm not going to have kids, but I can still take a shot at some of your questions. Basically the answer is to just educate them. If your sig. other takes them to Sunday School, you open up your very own Saturday school. Just always make sure they have the options there. If your Child were to ask you about God, just be honest, tell them your beliefs, your sig. other will be doing the same. You can't force anyone into believing anything (well at least you shouldn't), so just present the options.
I know I don't have kids, and don't plan on having kids, but I still hope this was something.
I don't plan to have kids (especially with a theist) but just figuratively speaking...
I think that it is vital to settle this matter with your spouse before the kids are even born. I couldn't stand having my kids raised as theists, especially if it was just for the sake of "fitting in".
As a compromise, I would suggest introducing the kids to the idea of god(s) and religion without pushing either theism or atheism - it is important to make them aware of the idea, as they will inevitably come across it at some point. If asked, I'd give my honest opinion and expect my sig. other to do the same. They may be a little confused at first, but they will eventually make up their minds - and if something forces them to think, it's only for the better.
Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself.
OK , I have a child who is now 9 an we have covered this so far.
He goes to a NON religious school , montessori school to be precise.
He has asked about god , and our approach has been , Answer all questions honestly.
Give our personal views .
Let him know that when he is old enough he can make up his own mind.
My take is that you teach a child HOW to think, not WHAT to think.
I would assume that the first time they hear about a god would be at school, or possibly other family members (my fiance's extended family is pretty religious).
If they come home asking questions, like who is god or who is Jesus the fairest answer I could think of is "A being that many people believe created the world and the universe." If they asked a question like "do you believe in a god" I would answer that it doesn't matter what I think, and it's something that he/she needs to figure out themselves. If they ever say they do believe then I would just ask them questions like why they believe and try to correct them if they have any of the facts wrong.
I would never push atheism on a child. Of course it's not really a coicidence that people who ask questions usually end up there in the end.
"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan
I have 2 kids [1 and 4] and my grandmother has been trying to get my 4 year old interested in her religion, but she isn't having much luck:
link to previous thread about one of her attempts
I will let my children make that decision when they are old enough.
I agree with you, except for the "It doesn't matter what I believe" part. Usually, a child is looking for a real answer. I know when I was a kid an answer like that would have made me feel vaguely insulted. If your kid asked you if you believed the rhino has baggy skin because there are cake crumbs stuck inside it(see Kipling's "Just So Stories"
) would you say, "It doesn't matter what I believe."? Probably not.
I'm not advocating saying, "No, little Billy, there isn't a 'god', and people who believe in gods are silly." But I just have SUCH a problem with lying/sugarcoating/being evasive to kids. 'Cause man, they KNOW. You can tell them shit when they're 4 and they'll remember it into adulthood, and it'll pop up randomly and they'll go, "Why did dad/mom say that?" Kids are a lot smarter than we give them credit for.
We have a saying in my house - "Thinking is not the same as knowing". My kids used to roll their eyes at me whenever I would say this as a response to their answers of "I think it is ok", "I think my homework is done", "I think my room is clean". Seems silly, but my point was to get them to START thinking and find out answers. For the most part it is working.
I was one of the lucky ones in that my ex is agnostic. I have been struggling with my 18 yr old daughter as she has recently decided to turn to religion in an effort to "find" herself. This was expanded on in another thread and I received some wonderful advice here. I am happy to report that she has once again started questioning why she going to church and examining her beliefs. (Church is a real social event here.) She has started reading some of these threads and re-opening her mind. My son....he believes in video games - lol. At 12 he understands science better than I do and places his trust in it.
It is important to me that they respect other beliefs but learn to think for themselves.
My son is thirteen and has questions from time to time. He claims to be an atheist and I tell him the most important thing to be is a "rational thinker" and a "critical thinker", then whatever conclusions he arrives at using these thinking skills will be done without emotion and an open mind.
He truly thinks the bible is silly, I have read parts to him and he has read other parts on his own. He can find nothing to inspire "faith", just stories.
I am wondering how a theist is willing to compromise his/her beliefs by marrying a non-believer, yet be unwavering on how the kids are raised. Let the spouse burn in hell, just save the kids?
I suppose the converse also applies: I would be two-faced if I could stand to share my life with a religionist, yet could not brook having the kids raised that way.
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I wouldn't be able to allow my kids to be carted off and indoctrinated. If they want to choose a religion when they're older then I'd regretfully have to accept that. But I wouldn't allow them to be put in a position where they'd be being told that fictional concepts are fact before they are able to critically examine said concepts. Especially not in a mind chaining area like a church. It's hard enough to battle the irrational ideas religious folk have without being ganged up on by them in a biased location.
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um....I'm sorry Susan if i posted this in the wrong forum, if I did, be all means feel free to move it. I didn't post this hoping for theists to respond, I was just looking for what other atheists (like myself) thought on the issue of raising children with a theist spouse.
MedievalGuy, my post was meant for theists who read through and think about posting. (I did this on quite a few of the Freethinker's threads.)
You were exactly correct in where you started this thread.
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Hahaha, ok, phew. I was kinda taken aback and wondering what I did wrong.
No problem. 
Anywho, I like the replies, I hope I'm lucky to find an atheist other, I don't know if it would be a deal breaker if she was a theist. Like others, I couldn't stand my kid being brought up believing that stuff, and I'd have to be honest with them. I'm just afriad my telling my kid the truth would cause a fight with my spouse.
v1per took the words right out of my mouth/keyboard.
'Because I said so.' is never a good answer. Parables don't work either. clearly defined, consistenly enforced, reason based rules wins over a skeptic. Waver once and it takes work to get back to that respectful dialogue with the children. I have 4 (ages 11b, 10g, 8g, 5g) My boy only had 4 A's on the report card, but the two elder girls were straight A's and the 10 yr. old girl is in the 97% percentile nationally for reading comprehension. S.T.A.R. Tops report.
As far as the SO being religious, if they can't effectively defend their faith to you then how are they going to defend it against curious/skeptical children?
Generally, my SO and I don't discuss religion, social policies, or politics. When we do, it leads to a smile on my face and her screaming about being persecuted or ignored. lol. Inevitably, one of us makes it up to the other one in some way.
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Man, if I got a dollar for everytime my parents said "because I said so" I would have been able to move out of the house and retire by the age of 15.
I have made a commitment to myself that I won't say those words to my kids.
As far as telling my kids what I believe... I think kids rely too much on their parents for information. Why do you think so many believe in a god? The last thing I would want is to be accused of indoctriating/brain washing. If they do ask me I think I would just turn it around and ask them what they think and ask them questions as to why they believe what they do. Then I can correct them if they have anything factual incorrect. Get them thinking and making up their own minds.
To bring up my SO (fiance) she is what we call a "functional atheist" she lives her life like there is no god, but believes in miracles and a heaven because it makes her feel better. She realizes that it's completely illogical but is ok with it none the less. She says that she would like our kids to know there is the possibility of something greater... of course to me you could use the same logic to teach them of the possibility of the IPU or the FSM or witches or faries, the list goes on forever. Kids for us is at least 5 years away, so I have some time to talk more sense into her.
"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan
I used to hate hearing "because I said so." Even at about 4 years old I knew enough innately about logic to say back "That's no answer."
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i have no kids, nor do i plan on having any, but my three and a half year old niece lives with me. and i can say, there is no way i would let my child be indoctrinated as she is being indoctrinated. she goes to a christian preschool, most of the books she has are christian books, her cds are all christian songs. that kind of indoctrination is very hard to overcome. it took me 26 years to fully reject a relgion i never would have accepted if the decision had been left up to me. if i had a significant other that wanted to raise the children in any particular religion, i wouldn't agree to it. they would just have to have children with someone else. i would never have my kids indoctrinated. even if only by one parent. my own indoctrination set me back intellectually. i wouldn't want to do that to my kids, and i know i'd resent my partner if they did it to them.
Rill