People who want to be irrational
Posted on: April 11, 2007 - 9:38am
Offline
People who want to be irrational
I'm sure you've met these kinds of people before. Is there anything that could possibly be done for them?
I have a friend who believes in heaven simply because they want it to be true. They know that it is a very irrational belief and believes it anyway just because it makes them happy to think about seeing loved ones again after death.
I feel that if someone knows they are crazy and want to keep it that way, then there really isn't anything that you can do. Do you all agree?
"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan
- Login to post comments
I agree. Reminds me of what Sam Harris said during a speech - that it would make him happier to believe he was over 6 feet tall, because of all the benefits of being tall in our society, it just happens to not be true.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
Deep down, in some locked away corner of their brains, I think even the most devout religious people know their beliefs are just beliefs and nothing more. They just don't want to admit it to themselves.
I think a lot of that comes from fear of admitting they might be wrong. Many people have a problem saying those words "I'm wrong".
I consider myself deeply irrational, the thread topic was misleading.
Not only theist are irrational!!! Geez, by continually labeling xians as irrational is taking my self chosen irrationality away.
Irrationality is just another feature of theist which they aren't quite good at.
I am not convinced this is true. This strikes me as similar to the statement, by many theists, that atheists really believe in God deep down, but don't want to be subject to God's laws (or some other nonsense).
I know it's not quite the same thing, and taht you are saying that those people who claim to know actually really understand that they really believe, but I still am not convinced. I think that many people don't really underastand enough about epistemology to sufficiently parse knowledge from phenomena mis-attributed. I think most people think that an experience is evidence for what they think the experience is of, and are not aware that there is a difference between this type of experience and knowledge.
Shaun
I'll fight for a person's right to speak so long as that person will, in return, fight to allow me to challenge their opinions and ridicule them as the content of their ideas merit.
I think you never want to underestimate the human's tendency to repress that which we don't want to face. Our greatest repression is clearly the fear of death. Without getting too Joseph Campbell on everyone, most of our great stories/mythologies all revolve around humans finding yet another way to transcend our mortality. Religious mythology gives this repression some sort of legitimacy in the mind of the believer, even if the legitimacy is completely false. Hence, at least one reason for the irrational behavior.
Religious belief rarely offers anything but a very immature view of the world, but I seldom see our cultures place much value on maturity. We deaden or distract ourselves w/ crappy film, mindless sitcoms, sports, horrible karaoke reality TV (vote Sanjaya) and superficial media stories (I don't give a flying f--- how many kids Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt want to adopt, just make a decent movie or at least get Angelina to take her top off already). Our culture cultivates humans who are superficial, shallow, refuse to grow up and have rarely, if ever, opened up a science book. Somehow, I've switched to Aldous Huxley here.. I leave my ramble w/ this:
"Culture is the fabrication of a child afraid to be alone in the dark". - Geza Roheim
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
George Orwell
I'd like to think that, and I'm sure in many cases it's true. But it doesn't explain the zeal with which some theists approach the issue. I think some people don't have a solid grasp on reality and how reality works, and in such situations it's easy to put the pieces of the puzzle together wrong. A study I recently read suggests that some people have problems putting the pieces together properly in the first place, so that problem would be compounded.
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/yellow_number_five/science/6001
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Pun was intended with my post, but since it holds some truth I might as well try to answer.
It simply runs down to this, I see no reason that rationality/irrationality is action guiding as a motivation per definition. Yet often we use the term 'rationality' as if it were, If you are rational you adhere to atheism and you'd think that science has a proper understanding of truth. This would implicitly presuppose some illusive domain that we could tap into by which we are rational.
I mean a lot of my actions defy my rational deliberation, nevertheless I can find arguments or equally valid reasons to neglect that deliberation (e.g. prudence, emotions, intuitions, principled choices). I don't think that in the end it is rationality that demarcates the problems we have or should have with theists. But rather reason, which incorporates both rationality (logos) and certain aspects of a certain folk psychology.
I think that it is a mistake that we have all questions answered about what 'rationality' actually contains and what implications it has or should have for the human condition. Personally I think a more Aristotelian view is more sound, in that rational deliberation is more of a means to an end, and that end is neither rational nor irrational but just what makes a human human.
Hope you get my point.