My first reaction... burn it (large-ish pictures)
Offline So as you may have read in my last post, my sister and mother have recently turned (apparently) into VERY theistic people.
I figured while I'm here at home by myself I would take a few pictures just to show you. Below you will find a few different versions of the bible, some things about EVANGELISM and also a christian cd and a book for my little sister to read with christian themes
Shes has another bible or two that I believe she took with her to Ohio just yesturday.
Book for my little sister, shes only 9!
Worksheet type things? Possibly for my sister. Either that or my mother doesn't have the comprehension to be able to read a piece of crap fairy tail and remember anything from it.
This little pocket guide thing. It details how to spread christianity and how to worship an invisible guy in the sky and whatnot.
Michael Popenhagen... shitty music... yes, I listened to it. Didn't realize it was christian crap until I read the back of the sleeve thingy it came in.
So, my thoughts, just burn this shit, I'm tired of having god around my house and I'm not going to let it take my mother and sister over. I don't care what the consequenses are going to be, it needs to be done. Thoughts?
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Burning might get rid of the immediate presence of this material but it will not get rid of their desire to read/listen to this crap. Reasoning, or at least and attempt to reason, with them is the only thing that may sway them from their beliefs. So, I don't really suggest burning, that will seem to only make them angry and cause more throuble than trying to talk to them.
ahhh, see, but I have tried that. I try to talk to my little sister about it but the only two replies I have ever gotten are "shut up!" or "we weren't made from monkeys (or apes)". Shes also said she wants to kill anyone thats not christian. Okay... no... wttttffff?
Any my mom is really no better, shes not willing to even give it a chance that there is no such thing as a god, a higher diety, anything but US. She keeps saying how there have been to many things in her life that she believes have been influenced by a "higher being". She says she is still "trying to figure out" which religion is best for her. Well, great news mom, they all suck!
To use Penn and Teller's example. The Raaeleans believe the same thing christians do, but they believe it was aliens! Now what if I believed that? Would that make ME wrong?
I read your other posts and responded to them. I really feel for you and understand where you are coming from. The only thing about burning the materials is that it is vindictive and is not a long term solution. You are in a hard spot, your mom and sister seem to seized by the christian body snatchers, I wish there was something I could do, say, or suggest to help. It sounds like they are beyond reason and I am not sure what the next step should be....
Well man, I wish there was to, lol. I mean, all I can really do now is let it go I think, I just feel so helpless and its such a bummer ya know?
But yeah, I understand where your coming from with the whole "don't burn them" thing lol.
Thanks again for responding to my other post, I appreciate it =]
You sound like a smart person, and very rational. It sucks for anyone to have to go through this, I am sure many other on the board have had similar experiences. Hang in there, letting go is hard, especially with family but sometimes that is all you can do. Hold your ground, talk to them when they ask, but don't push either. Hopefully they will come out of it.
Thanks for the complements, I really appreciate it. I hope they will come out of it, but what I'm worried about is the fact that she wants to move to Ohio, you know, to that religious family there. I just don't think it'll ever happen, only get worse. But hey, I'm not going anywhere soon I don't believe, so we'll see what happens =]
This little community is always here whenever you need to vent or talk about things.
amino - BGH's advice is probably the best available. There are a couple of positives that you can focus on:
- You have a place (here) where you can discuss these things which always helps
- You are obviously very intelligent
You are currently in a very difficult situation and as helpless as you feel right now, it will not always be that way. Keep learning, keep working toward your independence and don't interfere in your families beliefs. Do everything you can to set a positive example to your sister so that she will look up to you. If she hero-worships you at all she will want to be like you and it will be easier to discuss this kind of thing with her. If she doesn't then you have set a fine example of morality without god.Ahh yes, well I'm glad everyone here is so supportive, thats real cool =]
And yeah, she does tend to emulate me, so I figure eventually she will come around, especially in the years to come. Otherwise known as when she is actually old enough to understand these kind of things.
I'll tell you one thing that seems to work with a lot of recent converts, constant (and I mean constant) questioning.Ask them questions about anything they reference, or just random hard to answer questions. In the begining it might even help to just ask the questions and walk away, not try to talk too much about why you're questioning them so often. As time goes on start asking them harder and harder questions (don't get rid of your big guns in the begining) and eventually start trying to have discussions/debates with them.
This may seem like a very round about and obtuse way to go about things, but I've found alot of people to be intimidated by athiests, and generally intimidated people respond with anger. This is especially true of those who haven't really had a chance to think about why they believe what they believe (many people evidently only think about this after they've been forced to, I don't know why). So it might behoove you allow them to think about what it is they have begun to believe and then question them more rigorously.
No Gods, Know Peace.
P.S.-I would advise you to digitally edit the phot of the stapled photocopies so that it no longer has someones name and phone number on there. I'm paranoid about stuff like that, it's a sickness I think.
No Gods, Know Peace.
Is it strange that as soon as I saw this, I got "Love is a battlefield" by Pat Benatar stuck in my head?
Love is a battlefiiiieeellld......For kids!
Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine
I don't have much to add except I think NinjaTux has a pretty good suggestion.
Setting a good example and not letting them see that this all gets under your skin (even though you want to SCREAM) and talking rationally with them is about the best you can do for now.
I assume your mom went to Ohio to meet MySpace Man? I'll be curious to hear if things are as "wonderful" in person as they are on MySpace. Maybe the guy is a jerk and will show her how xians can sometimes be a horse's behind.
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I helped free a relative from xian thinking by explaining to them that religion and god was just an emotional response to the hard times they were having in their life.
This relative was depressed and thought no one cared for her, so of course some asshole theist has to introduce the whole 'god cares for you always and loves you and blah blah blah' angle.
I talked to her about how, as humans, this idea is a very psychologically and emotionally appealing one. I admitted to her that the idea of an all-loving god who guides you, cares for you and has a special plan for you is a universally appealing one, but just because you like an idea doesn't make it true.
I talked about how we can often over-look major logical fallacies just to believe something that makes us feel better. Our brains will rationalize things that make no sense if we want to believe enough.
Most importantly, I talked about how 'giving her life to god' was the most self-defeating thing she would ever do. Saying that she was powerless without god to stop being depressed starts a viscious cycle that takes merit away from your own personal achievements and lends creedence to the idea that only in god are you truly unique and loved.
I don't know if this line of reasoning is something you've tried or think may be helpful, but for my relative it seems that exposing her to her psychological motivations did the trick.
I truly hope that you find some way to have an open dialogue with your mother. I can't even imagine what it must be like to see important people in your life slipping away into xtian mindless-ness.
http://atheismisrational.blogspot.com/
Yeah, its a bitch having to watch them do this to themselves. But man, you couldn't have been more perfect with the situation. Thats exactly how my mom is, all depressed and thinking no one cares for her anymore. Shes always asking me why I hate her and she spends ATLEAST 90% of her time on the computer. I've also read plenty of studies that have said that being on the computer so much if you are allready depressed can actually lead to MORE severe depression!
Anyways, I'll try and say to her what you wrote up above, sounds like a very convincing argument and I hope it atleast sparks a little something in her brain about how maybe what she is doing to herself and my sister is wrong.
Yup, that would be exactly what she is there for. Shes allready been down there once and spent a few days with him. And apparently he is the nicest guy in the world.
She's doing all the traveling and he hasn't been to your home? (And she's thinking of moving there???)
Isn't there something wrong with that picture?
Of course, times may have changed and that's OK now.
It sounds like perhaps depression about the divorce is weighing on her and she's feeling unlove-able. We've all been there at the end of a relationship.
About all you can do is take into account some of the suggestions you've gotten on this thread.
I really hope it works out for you.
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server.
I would definitely bring up the fact that she is searching for something. I mean, she's probably feeling a little lost and adrift (depending on how recent the divorce). She's unsure of her place in the world and is looking for something to give her stability and a sense of community. These can be found without religion. You may look around and see if there are any atheist meetups in you area (I might be able to throw a link your way, or if someone else knows it off the top of their head). Whatever happens, if she tries to make you move and you don't want to, let her know that she's taking from you exactly what she's searching for. Never give her a free pass for how her decisions effect you. My parents divorced when I was very young (6), and it took me a long time to realize that I had a say in my own life. Don't let the "I'm the parent and you'll do what I say" line give them a free-pass to do whatever they want. If she stills moves you around, try to get together with atheists in the new area. Don't give up. You can do this, and when all else fails just make the best of it you can.
No Gods, Know Peace.