Hope...again.....
Offline Hey guys, I'm sorry, I know this has been talked about over and over again, and I went back 16 pages in the forum's history looking for a topic on it but couldn't find any. If someone knows another thread on it, I would be ever so grateful if they pointed me to it. If not, then my question is how do I combat the "Hope" argument. Its purely an emotional argument "How can you tell a dying child with cancer that there is no god?" or "How can you tell people who have a family member in a life and death struggle that praying doesn't do a damn thing?" They try to make you sound like a horrible person. This argument just leaves me without a come back really. All I can think to say is "well just b/c something gives you comfort doesn't mean its true" to which they reply "Whats so important about being true? Why can't people just live their lives in ignorance" ugh....
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I don't think there has been anything on this - at least lately.
Quite honestly, in situations of a life and death struggle, I leave people to whatever they want to believe (in most cases).
I don't think times like that are the right time to debate religion. (Unlike Fred Phelps picketing funerals)
However, if a situation came up where someone was upset because goddidit to the patient or the loved ones, I might very gently attempt to comfort them with something to the effect of goddidnotdoit.
I'm curious to see what other folks think.
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"Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self."
Quite personally, let them believe what they want to believe. If they ask you, tell them what you think, there is no point in lying. In the end, though let them believe whatever they want to believe so they aren't in such despair.
"Why would God send his only son to die an agonizing death to redeem an insignificant bit of carbon?"-Victor J. Stenger.
I know, if it were a life and death situation it wouldn't be the time to debate religion, but in everyday debating that point comes up. Religion gives people hope and comfort. I just don't know how to combat this. When i'm arguing that religion is harmful and should be done away with, I can't combat this b/c it's not a logical thing, it's emotional.
The only thing I can reply to the hope comment is that being an atheist gives me hope that the rest of the world will eventually rid of religion and that all of the planet will finally be united in advancing humanity rather than fighting eachother on who has the best magical invisible friends.
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I posed this question on the Revolution Church messageboard - that's the cult run by Jim Bakker's son. They had a message up there about Tammy Faye Bakker having cancer and things being very hard for her and asking for people to pray.
Personally, I have always thought Tammy Faye Bakker was a pretty decent person. When I saw her on the Surreal Life, she seemed very down-to-earth and likable. It's a shame someone like her has to suffer.
Having lost my own father to cancer, the notion that someone should "pray" for people like this, really incenses me. It just makes me furious. So I responded on that messageboard suggesting that in addition to people praying, they also donate some money to the American Cancer Society. Prayer isn't going to cut it. Put your money where your prayers are.
That's a great response, Pile.
Back to Medievalguy's original question, though:
How would you deal with this face-to-face with a dying child or one of their family members?
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Well face to face I would try to console them and what not, but I wouldn't say anything like "they are in a better place now." Again, I wouldn't bring this up to them to start an argument right after someone has died. The only other thing I can think to say if someone presents this to me in an everyday argument is to ask them "is the comfort religion gives worth the harm it inflicts?" I would point out the paradox of religion in cases of say, family members praying for their love ones on 9-11." Here religion is giving comfort to those families, but at the same time, had religion not existed, they wouldn't be worried sick and praying in the first place...... Any more ideas? This is really bugging me since I know it's my major weak spot in an argument at the moment.