Do we need religion?
Offline I am an atheist and have in my own small way fought the good fight to remove religion from society although as I matured I developed a much more live and let live policy in this area. Recently I've been wondering if our society could survive without religion. Maybe I'm just being arrogant (I have been known to do so) but I don't think most people are emotionally or morally developed enough for atheism.
It seems to me that to be an atheist requires personal strenght. You need to accept that you are responsible for the solution of the problems you face in life, deal with the fact that your existence is finite and not be terrified by unknowns. You also need to be able to develop your own morals follow them for reasons other than the threat of punnishment.
Without the personal strength you'd end up in a sobbing heap (I know I've come close in the middle of the night when I've laid awake contemplating the idea of not existing after some point in the future) and without the morality you'd only damage society.
I know this is on some level agreeing with the christian argument that you can't be moral without religion but maybe some people can't. I guess what I'm saying is that we developed religion for good reasons. 1) To cope with the knowledge that we are going to die (something most other animals arent aware of) and 2) To keep the masses in line. I'm not sure that we've all developed beyond that yet.
What's your opinion? Are we ready as a species to be atheists or do some/most still need the opiate and threats of hellfire?
Oh, a lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!
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There already are functional secular societies. Sweden and Japan are the examples I hear most often. I don't know what religious people go through when their views finally collapse in on themselves. I've never been religious, and couldn't really care less about becoming so. I don't recognize that “god” is anything outside a person's own fractured perception of the world, so I would hope people able to reunite with these aspects of their own personalities wouldn't feel there was a missing dimension to their lives.
There is a difference between a secular society and a society without religion. It's just a society that isn't connected to a religion. This is an ideal that is part of modern democracies - the separation of church and state - although in practice that isn't the case for most. Those within a secular society might still believe in the various gods available to them it is just kept separate from the law-making process.
Oh, a lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!
Then my terminology was wrong. Those two countries have religious people as a minority.
Well I agree with you that alot of people are still not ready to accept an atheist worldview. "God is dead" and its seems alot of people seem to be in a transition from theism to atheism (or possibly deism/pantheism). But there are also some that are gonna hold on to their indoctrination for their entire life.
"I, on the other hand, do not feel it necessary to construct a lofty meaning for myself. I prefer the style of the butterfly myself. I will eat what I want, flit about aimlessly, and enjoy the sunshine. Then, I will die. " - Nero, RRS Forum User
I don't think anyone would "need " it if they hadn't been raised with it. Unfortunately, it's hard to give up when someone's been indoctrinated.
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It's clear that some people can live quite well without religion probabyl better than they could live with it. I was just wondering if all people could do so.
Looking at some people I can't see them coping with reality without religion. So my question is really 2 parts
1) Are there people that are better off with religion than they would be without it.
2) Why do they need reliegion? There are three options I can see:
-a) Religion has created the need for religion. Since they grew up with the crutch they never developed the strenght to function without it (deal with death, accept unknowns, determine right and wrong for themself).
-b) The structure of our society requires it. (Religion is the opiate of the masses) It keeps most people happy with the status-quo.
-c) It's a problem with genes. Like other animals we have the self-preservation instinct but unlike them we have developed the intelligence to be are aware of the inescapable fact of our own mortality. Fear of the unknown also seems to be something we picked up along the way. Self delusion is the way we generally plug that hole. The question then would be have some of us developed some other instinct to cope with it or is there a way to plug that hole using something other than fantasy?
Oh, a lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!