Welcome to the forums, SumTingWong.

When you get a chance, we'd love it if you'd hop over to General Conversations, Introductions and Humor and introduce yourself. 

As far as I know, we haven't had a 9/11 conspiracy discussion.

My personal opinion is that it was religious extremists. I think that is evidenced by the plots that have been thwarted in other places such as London. Also, look at the guy (sorry, I forget his name) that had a bomb in his shoe. He was acting from his indoctrination from the Taliban.

Conspiracy theories abound after any huge traumatic event such as 9/11 and they rarely have any basis in truth.

Look at the conspiracy theories about the JFK assassination. None of them ever ended up holding water. I have no doubt that if there was a grain of truth to any of them, it would have eventually have come to light.

I wonder if the men that caused the Oklahoma City bombing hadn't been caught so quickly, what conspiracy theories might be around today.

The 9/11 conspiracy theories are all bogus.  At least all of the ones I've heard.

I love the people who think that the current presidency is the worst most incompetant group of people we've ever had running the country, while at the same time claiming that they pulled off the most advanced, and perfectly executed conspiracy of all time.

Most of the people here are general skeptics if you say "I believe that A exists, or that B happened" we simply reply with "Oh yea? Show me why." So far from what I've seen 9/11 conspiracies are on equal ground with the moon landing hoax, and the existence of big foot.  Simply because there is no evidence for any of them.

Andyy, your avatar scares me

Can't we look in betweeen the lines for an alternative answer? Isn't that what we do here? Gather all the evidence supplied and analyze it? And ultimately come up with a rational conclusion. If something doesn't fit then we gotta ask ourselves why. It's like telling you there is such a thinkg called god. (which I don't believe in btw) And in a rational conclusion without any original piece of hard evidence we can soundly say that there isn't one.

 Bottom line is despite the fact that the terrorists were the one flew the planes into the twin towers. I just want to know is how can two enormous buildings come at a free fall like that without any resistance? None what-so-ever. It is absolutely amazing to me that a well built tower can subdue to a plane crash like that. We can thank our engineers for that. It stood firm when the planes hit. Even though it was a big factor in weaking the frame. I believe there has to be some help involved other than just broken steel and fires to make the buildings come down so fast.

ex. The game jenga. what happens when we weaken the middle frame of the blocks it falls right? but you can still cleary see that the bottom is still intact. I know its on a much smaller scale but the principle is still the same.

  Yes I have read the Popular Mechanics article about the debunking of 911 conspiracists and the funny thing is there wasn't a single thing they said that made anysense about the free fall of the towers. The pancake theory is just rubbish.

 Call me crazy. It isn't like the goverment never did anything shady in the past. They might portray themselves as respectable characters and the do a damn good job of it too. But behind closed doors most of them are just money mongering slimeballs. Much like the churches we come to love so much haha.

I can come up with lots of events that the US were involved with that wasn't so righteous. Heck it even goes on to this day. So we should believe our media and goverment so blindedly as if we were to follow the bible the same way? I think not. So I urge everyone to be rational be logical and come up with a reasonable answer.  

What exactly are you getting at? Are you suggesting that our government had something to do with the fall of the towers? I'm no architect, but I imagine that it would be pretty damn hard for those buildings not to collapse. 

I honestly don't know that much about any of the conspiracy theories that involve 9/11.  I don't think our government really did anything wrong though.  Perhaps they ignored warning signs, but I don't think it was intentional, which is what I think you're implying.

Well, here's my answer, No!

I am not a big conspiracy theorist, I just can't buy into them. 

I can accept the conspiracy a very small amount, in that some parts of it were documented to be real. However, I believe that the US Gov't's only involvement was incompetence, not deliberate and malicious forethought.

Before it was castrated by the Bush administration and had an incompetent put at the head of it, FEMA made a list of the three largest risks facing the US: 1) a terrorist plane attack on the twin towers 2) New Orleans levees giving way 3) San Francisco earthquake.

FEMA, it seems, really knew its shit. Sorry, anyone in SF, but they're batting two for two right now, and you're next in line. Now would be a good time to check that your household insurance includes cover for Acts of God.

Apparently the government organisation had received tips that it was planned, but it was just one of a huge number of tips they get daily, and had no corroborating evidence.

So, they knew the plane attack was a risk. In fact, that day, they were doing a training simulation of that exact scenario. How unlikely is that? Not very, especially if the training simulation was announced publicly to warn all pilots: the terrorists would've picked that day specifically.

When the planes hit, they didn't, to people's surprise, knock down the towers. Lots of people managed to get evacuated. But the fires inside, of plane fuel, were heating up and softening the internal supports. Eventually, they gave way and the top part was no longer supported on the inside, though the outside metal framework was still intact. The weakened section permitted floors above to drop: funnelled by the steel reinforcing on the outside, they fell like bricks down a chimney, destroying the floors below, each floor added to the collapse increasing the mass of this concrete pile-driver.

Though the buildings were made to be plane-proof, they weren't made to withstand the large modern planes, and this failure mode (burning plane fuel around the central column) had not been modelled by the designers.

The terrorists and government were as surprised as anyone else when the first one fell.

There are some odd things about the events, but regardless of how involved or incompetent the government was they still used the events to scare the american public. Add all the other bullshit they put the nation through and the pissing on the constitution they should get whatever they would get if they did do 9/11.

I do like the thermite theory, because thermite burns straight through metal at 5000 degrees.  The only problem is it would be bright as hell.  Some objections to the jet fuel burning theory are that fuel would only weaken steel about 50%, and that smoking molten metal is supposedly found at the base of the towers after the collapse, which jet fuel wouldn't be hot enough for (although the molten metal evidence isn't substantiated aside from people who think it's molten based on videos). 

 This site helps a lot with debunking, I'd suggest reading through all the entries:

http://www.911myths.com/ 

Pretty common theory, though it overlaps with a lot of others.  The alternative is that people are making money off of something that just happened to occur due to Islamic extremism.

For all we know, it may have happened due to islamic extermism, but I just can't believe that such huge operations could have been carried out by some non-american kids out of desert with bin laden leading them from his cave.

and on the other side, you've got, the CIA, the NSA and musad with their multi million dollar budget and high tech stuff and decades of inteligence history.

the match up is like throwing a 5 year old in the ring with Mike Tyson.

I just like this one for some reason.

http://www.enterprisemission.com/tower2.htm 

Osama said he only planned to damage the towers, but it went much better than expected

The Popular Mechanics article is a great lesson on propaganda...

I haven't looked at the 9/11 conspiracy scene in a while but I'm fairly sure there are crazier people out there now than when I was looking at it (about a year ago).

 First, for those of you who support the pancake theory, NIST has tossed it out the window:

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

"NIST’s findings do not support the 'pancake theory' of collapse, which is premised on a progressive failure of the floor systems in the WTC towers (the composite floor system—that connected the core columns and the perimeter columns—consisted of a grid of steel 'trusses' integrated with a concrete slab; see diagram below). "

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/sund-flash.html

Lots of interesting quotes:

(pt2)WTC1: The building was hit between the 92nd and 99th floor.  Which essentially means that the top 25, or so, floors completely demolished the bottom 80 floors.  How is this possible?

(pt3)In reference to WTC2: "It's essentially like looking at a three or four legged stool and taking out one leg"  Taking out one leg of a stool does not result in the entire stool crumbling to the ground in a heap - with this analogy the top of the building should have fallen off the the bottom and crashed to the ground leaving the bottom in tact.  Okay, maybe he's poor at making analogies.  Watching building 2 collapse is rather perplexing to me - the top torques quite a bit and then suddenly the structure under it just seems to melt away.

(pt4) "Most of the jet fuel was burned in a matter of minutes, maybe 5 or 6 minutes, but certainly less than 10."  The rest of this clip is simply mind boggling - if fires are "moving from location to location every 20 minutes" how are they promoting the weakening of the steel to the point of weakening enough of them to make them all collapse simultaneously on initiation of collapse?

Pentagon:

http://perso.orange.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/pages-en/cctv.html

http://www.thepentacon.net/pierpaolomurru/reportdod/site/eng_version/

I'm rather intrigued that buildings 5 & 6 didn't collapse on 9/11.  They had to be demolished.  You'll find buildings 5 & 6 pretty much between the twin towers and building 7.  Both building suffered massive fires and an extrodinary amount of damage (google image search it).  It should, however, be noted these were only 9 story buildings.

 http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=6

"The tidy hole in Ring C was 12 ft. wide--not 16 ft. ASCE concludes it was made by the jet's landing gear, not by the fuselage. "

Where is it?  They have so many pictures of the pentagon and the hole in Ring C, why aren't there any pictures of the landing gear at Ring C?  It's a massive hole - you'd think we'd be able to easily spot the landing gear, why can't we?  Even then - if the plane hit the building at a DOWNWARD angle (like it should have) how was a hole created through 320 ft of building? 

Who knows what Osama did or didn't do, many people ask; "Who are you going to believe, the terrorists or the government?": http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/south/02/05/binladen.transcript/

These are a few of a great number of questions I have about 9/11, I wish they could all be answered.

  Is it possible it was terrorists?  Yes.  Is it possible it was a conspiracy?  I wouldn't rule that out yet either.

Do you realise the very reason why 9/11 occured was because security agencies like the FBI, CIA and NSA were WITH HOLDING information from each other? The reason the extremeists were allowed to do what they could do was because we had weakened ourselves.

MANY of the terrorists are well educated and Osama is an heir of a fortune of millions of dollars. This isn't "some islamic guy in a cave" and saying such shows how unaware you are. 

And all of them rubbish too. 

If we sent George over to read the Bible to the Taliban, America could become eternally victorious.

There's more to it than just that. Yes, they boil down to arguments from incredulity, but I think they are rooted in fear. It's kind of scary to realize less than 20 people could do that. It doesn't sit well with most people, so they WANT it to involve more people and more insidious twists and turns - I mean, surely the people charged with protecting us MUST have been involved, because if they weren't, we'd have to admit how vulnerable we really are. The same sort of psychology can be found in say the JFK assassination.

In the end, none of the conspiracy cranks have much to offer, and I've frankly had enough go arounds on the details in other forums to last a life time.

Did our government have an active role? No. There is no reliable evidence for such. Could our government have hidden some details of the events after the fact in order to pass the buck and cover up their own egregious incompetence? Certainly, but that's not the sort of thing I'd call conspiracy - it's more or less spin.

Perhaps the ArkansAss GOP Chairman gives a big clue to who was behind 911 in: We need more 'attacks on US soil' so people appreciate Bush

I like the term 'coincidence theories' rather than conspiracy theories. It's the 'coincidences' beyond the realm of 'random' that makes so many of the conspiracy theories sound so much more feasible compared to the 'official' fairytales dressed up as truth coming from our Gov't.

Personally I don't believe any of the Feds official 'truths' about a lone gunman in the RFK, JFK or MLK assassinations. For example, according to an actual jury verdict on December 8,1999, in the wrongful death lawsuit of the King family versus Loyd Jowers, “Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated by a conspiracy that included agencies of the US government.”“The Death Of Martin Luther King” at WhatReallyHappened.com]. Specifically, Hoover’s FBI COINTELPRO program “that with the full knowledge and blessing of the political leadership, destroyed the leadership of the civil rights movement, intentionally, covertly, and with malice of forethought” [

One can take skepticism too far though like I'm seen 'some' in liberal blogs in being so skeptical, they don't believe global warming is a fact despite conclusive scientific evidence to the contrary - Most of them don't seem to understand how global warming can cause an ice age from ice caps melting into ocean streams..

Many might argue facts showing Bush-GOP complicity in the 9-11 attacks to be one of the major events of the 21st century that had turned a US democratic republic into what I call the new ‘Former USA’. However, it was the end results of the anthrax-aided Patriot Act that became far more harmful to our freedoms than the multitude of suspicious facts surrounding the 9-11 attacks implicating the illegal Bush-GOP regime.

Government by Anthrax by Richard J. Ochs, June 9, 2002 - read the article for 'coincidences' far beyond the realm of random for any rational skeptic to believe anyone else but the Feds or those on their payroll could of been behind the passing of the anthrax aided misnamed 'Patriot Act'. “The number of unlikely ‘coincidences’ associated with the anthrax attacks on the media and Congress makes it almost impossible to believe that they were random.” This of course is not proof.

“The number of unlikely ‘coincidences’ associated with the anthrax attacks on the media and Congress makes it almost impossible to believe that they were random. The simultaneous debate of Bush’s Patriot Bill in Congress points to the existence of a cabal of domestic conspirators which succeeded in terrorizing the body politic to influence legislation.

The glaring coincidence of the anthrax attacks with the passage of the Patriot Act can only be ignored as an elephant is ignored at a tea party. It is believable that this coincidence was overlooked in the fall of 2001 due to all the confusion, including letters to other places. In historical hindsight, the connection is obvious. It can be ignored now only as Germans ignored the death camps. The brazenness of the crime was unbelievable. Moreover, to admit the crime’s existence requires a courageous response. Timid souls may be tempted to stick their heads in the sand rather than do what is required to expose and root out criminals in high places, especially in time of war. The obvious response would be a Congressional investigation with no holds barred, even if it goes all the way to the top. The war for democracy must start at home.”

Without getting too involved with ‘Gestalt Philosophy’ here, the ‘Gestalt Quality’ for the documented 1990s Master Plans of the GOP criminals in the the White House since the start of the 21st century and 4 specific documented events in 4 years that followed reveal an intrinsic nature to them as a whole rather than just looking at their individual elements. Together they provide us a pattern of behavior from them that yields something far greater than the sum of their parts.

The overt GOP Master plans of the 1990s together with 4 major events in the first 4 years of the 21st century points directly to a sinister, successful GOP covert Master plan to overthrow the US democratic republic, and terrorize its citizens into submission by supporting this ‘Master Plan’ that utilizes a pre-emptive, 1st strike war doctrine to achieve its goals.

You can read my take on 911, 2000 and 2004 'elections', the anthrax attacks and the Hitlerian GOP Master Plans of the last decade in the 20th century here on:

Apparently this is a fake version of the documentary. It has been edited by 9/11 conspiracy theorists in an attempt to try discredit the BBC journalism. Clearly they cant rationally refute it, so they have to use underhand tactics.