Child Abuse
Offline This issue, for me and I'm sure most everyone else in this forum, deeply disturbing. I was at the mall today and a woman was yelling at a sobbing child in the bathroom and saying things like "I don't have time for this." It pisses me off so much...if you "don't have time", don't have a child! Oh wait, you also didn't have TIME to use birth control, so you waste away government money on getting your hair done and neglecting, hurting and shaming your baby. I wa so creeped out I couldn't stay in the bathroom. I ran out and had chills down my spine for the next half-hour. My whole body felt in danger. You just had to hear this woman's words...
My boyfriend was physically and verbally abused as a kid. Sometimes I hold him while he cries, and he's a MAN. It pains me so much. I'm very emotional about all this. Sometimes I cry about it. I can't stand it. We have to educate people about children, birth control and continue to fight to get people like this mental help and the children into a safe enviornment. My father is a juvenille judge and he sees cases so horrific everyday I'm not sure how he deals with it.
If anyone has any words on the subject, I'd be so happy to hear it.
*Our world is far more complex than the rigid structure we want to assign to it, and we will probably never fully understand it.*
"Those believers who are sophisticated enough to understand the paradox have found exciting ways to bend logic into pretzel shapes in order to defend the indefensible." - Hamby
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I don't have many encouraging words... Personally, I offend almost everybody with my views, because not only am I pro-choice, I'm pro-abortion. I consider there to be a difference. Not only am I in favor of giving women a choice, I'm in favor of encouraging them to have an abortion if they are not in a good position to have a child... physically, financially, emotionally... whatever.
Not only that, I'm a zero-growth guy. I think there are already way too many people, and I really do think that reducing the population is the only way to reduce consumption in any meaningful way. In other words, I think even people who would like to have children ought not have more than one. (Yeah, I know, it would deprive them of a sibling. Sue me.)
Unfortunately, we are taught that not only is every baby sacred (even the ones who should have been aborted because they have a birth defect, or are severely retarded, or whatever) but every god damned zygote is sacred too. I don't know how to go about affecting a real change in public attitude, but I'm sure weakening fundamentalism in particular, and Christianity in general, would have the added benefit of allowing people to actually think logically about reproduction.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Dam Hambydammit!
I felt like I was the only human on the planet that had those views about abortion. Your views match mine to the T.
Yeah I know there's more but its nice to hear someone else mirror my thoughts on the subject.
People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.
AiiA, there are a lot of us, actually, but we very seldom mention it because it's doesn't really promote our chances of getting a girlfriend. Me, I'm kind of a glutton for rejection, so I bring it up as often as possible. (Maybe "bring it up" isn't the right phrase for this topic...)
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Yelling "I don't have time for this" to a crying child isn't exactly child abuse, maybe the kid was throwing a fit because he/she wasn't getting some toy they wanted, or junk food instead of something decent to eat. You didn't exactly go into details, so as far as I can tell maybe that parent is doing a lot in the way of keeping that kid from being a spoiled brat in the future. There are way too many people throwing the term "child abuse" around too loosely, and likewise, there are way too many people not doing a damn thing about real cases. And from this incident in a restroom, you jump to conclusions about child abuse and someone spending govt. money on hairdo's.
"Who, like some evil Atlas, turned the world upside down upon their shoulders, and made shams and delusions into absolute truths, and absolute truths into inviolate heresy?" Elliot Merrick, True North (this may be a misquote, but is close, I don't have th
Such empathy is admirable. Unfortunately, children are the last people seen as chattle.
"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer
Count me in on that as well. I think couples that have more than 2 kids are socially irresponsible.
"The powerful have always created false images of the weak."
Hey it's Peppermint! She's alive!
There are many children that are abused, at least by my standards. I certainly understand that someone getting after their child can seem out of hand when you take into account the circumstance, tone of voice, etc.
The problems come in when we decide what needs to be done about it. Who decides what qualifies as child abuse? Who makes the distinction between raising a child and hurting them? Are the underqualified and personally vested social workers really the best people to make decisions for a family?
There are obvious lines that must be drawn when we come into neglect and physical harm. Those are easy to pick out and undeniably harmful to a child. The other stuff? Not so easy, and it is very unlikely that any two people will ever agree about acceptable and unacceptable behavior.
I have mixed feelings on the issue. Not really about child abuse in the form we generally agree on, but on the issue of genuine quality parenting. You clearly shouldn't have children you aren't mentally or financially prepared to care for. Sadly, it appears like these people are the ones popping them out like crazy. I do take issue with people who do NOT discipline their children. I also squirm when people try to do it in public. I think it adds humiliation to the business of parenting and that is never ok. Frankly there are plenty of kids who are not taught how to behave and we all have to deal with them once they are adults. I ALSO squirm when children act up in public and are completely ignored. Perhaps he was truly misbehaving and she took him to the bathroom because it was the most private place? I'm not going to defend a real child abuser. I'm also not defend people who don't think to stop having children they cannot raise... or simply don't want to raise.
I was at the mall yesterday watching a child who couldn't be over 5 wildly pushing a stoller into crowds of people walking by. Of course their parents enjoyed their meal and pretended like the toddler was a good babysitter for the infant that was crying in the stroller.
I'm being totally high and mighty on this issue as a childless 21 year old woman. I get that. I also don't plan on having spoiled brats running around the mall acting like idiots while I pretend like it isn't my responsibility to be a parent. I won't be having children I can't provide for... and well I'll be honest... keep in line so they don't become raging lunatic assholes.
PS Has anyone seen the show on the discovery channel about the fundies with the 16+ kids who all have the 'J' names. Holy... crap.
“The four most over-rated things in life are champagne, lobster, anal sex and picnics.”
-Christopher Hitchens
"I don't believe in God, but I'm afraid of Him."
-Gabriel Garcia Marquez
I agree with both you. I was once told I was 'selfish' because I stated that I didn't want to have children. Just because my body has the capabilities to produce children doesn't mean that I have a duty to do so. This planet is too overpopulated to begin with and I see no reason to add to the problem.
If god takes life he's an indian giver
Wow, how daft would a person have to be in this day and age to think that everyone should be having babies? I mean, you'd have to be off of your nut to think that having MORE children is really what this planet needs.
To the pro-abortion folks -
I frown upon suggesting that abortion should be used as birth control. I don't understand the female system very intimately but I do know that their hormones and reproductive systems are much more complicated than those of males. Keeping this in mind, the idea of periodically having an abortion sounds risky to a fault. I agree that we could all stand to be less indoctrinated with the idea that abortion is some kind of sin. However, I would hope that as enlightened people we should look for a safer way to prevent overpopulation.
That sounds suspiciously like a mother or grandmother's words. I don't understand people who want children. It is like allowing insane, filthy dwarves into your home.
"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer
Pretty daft, I'm sure. lol.
I don't think that abortion should be used as birth control in a permanent sense. If you accidentally get pregnant, that's one thing. If you're constantly getting pregnant and getting abortions, that's just plain dangerous and stupid. Get a tubal ligation.
If god takes life he's an indian giver
Ideally, I think responsible people do things in this order:
1) Very good, consistent birth control.
2) Sterilization (when you're sure you don't want kids)
3) Morning after pill (when you didn't pay attention to #1)
4) Abortion
So, I think abortion, while it is obviously not a great option as birth control, is a FABULOUS option for population control when birth control fails.
And, to be perfectly frank, if someone doesn't use good birth control consistently, and ends up having to have several abortions, and becomes infertile as a result, I'm not going to cry in my beer.
Also, frankly, we have to look at men on this issue, too. I'm 34, no kids, and I'm also shooting blanks. It would be hypocritical for me to still be fertile if I know I don't want kids. Many men are afraid to do it, though. They're afraid women won't marry them. Or that they will be "Less Manly!" if they don't produce seed. This is a huge cultural issue, and it needs to be addressed. If more men were sterile, less women would get accidentally pregnant, you know? Much easier for men to do it than women.
On the subject of sterilization, I know this sounds awfully... um... fascist, but I think we should include sterilization as a partial solution to the welfare issue. Poor white women in middle America are responsible for the majority of state-subsidized children. Tying them up after their second under-priviledged child would go a long way, you know?
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Of course not. I was making sweeping arguments just as a counterwieght. I don't suspect anyone that has posted here thinks abortion should really be used as birth control.
I'm totally hijacking this thread and I apologize.
Holy shit! We can't start impinging on the liberties of others based on wealth! You will never meet a greater elitist than myself, but one can't go about invading people's bodies for economic reasons. For instance, Andrew Carnegie was the youngest child of poor immigrants. Had they done the same at the turn of the century, one of the greatest industrialists and philanthropists of the century would have just been a good time one night.
This reminds me of the film, "Are you fit to breed?" It is a twenty minute film from the 1930's asking if a person is fit to breed. It suggested Slavs, Irishmen, and Mongoloid races should avoid doing so. I suspect for similar economic reasons.
You take away the penumbra of the ninth amendment and the rights to privacy that it entails, and we end up with some unfortunate results. For instance, abortion might become illegal with the same reasoning. Also, your home would cease to be a place of privacy. Just thinking of the case law that would disappear due to such a move makes me want to throw up.
"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer
It's tough to be able to tell what's going on with a situation like this. I get so pissed off sometimes I have to fight the urge to yank a pimple faced kid over a counter because he doesn't understand that I don't want any fucking pickles on my hamburger. Some days I have more success than others. It's hard to be patient and constructive.
I doubt that, really, any of us are qualified to raise a child. That is if we are assuming that there is a 'right way' to do it. We as a species have reached a pretty high level of enlightenment at least when we compare it to the other organic life forms on this planet. However, we are still limited by our minds and our hormones.
Oh wow, that's fricken' awesome. I hadn't really thought about it like that but, humor aside, that's a pretty solid point!
Absolutely! The whole 'manly' thing is also the primary reason that cures / preventative measures regarding prostate cancer have not been more thoroughly investigated. This stuff is killing us but we'd rather that than to talk about our butts. (but I digress).
Dude!
It was a co-worker in her early 40's. She had three kids herself.
I loathe when my mother asks me when I'm going to make her a grandma.
If god takes life he's an indian giver
As an example of serious child abuse, there was a couple in my town who had ten kids by the time the woman was 33. The father, 8 years older than her, was a dyed-in-the-wool nut, not just religiously, but in general. He would do stuff like taking raw gold into the grocery store and try to buy food with it, then raise 99 types of hell when they told him they couldn't accept it. He also referred to the Bible as the "white man's salvation" and was a general pariah about town that no one could stand. I was actually friends with him, I am almost embarrassed to admit now.
Their oldest son, who was the woman's son by another marriage, had hearing damage from this guy slapping him in the head, although they claimed he had it since birth. To make a long story short, the father was sexually molesting the three oldest girls, ages 11 to 14 at the time I found out about it. The girl who first confided in me, did so because my wife and I were keeping some of the kids at our house while the parents were out of town working, for the first time in the ten years that I knew them. She said she and her sisters had first told their mom, then the grandmother, and had also told various people, adults and kids, around town. No one so much as lifted a finger, whether it was out of fear or disbelief or what I don't know. I told the three of them that it wouldn't do them any good for me to call the authorities, someone else had already done that in a complaint just of general child abuse and nothing was done.
What my wife and I did was call authorities and found out exactly who needed to be notified and what should be done, and then we gave the girls a comfortable place where they could call and tell the police and child welfare agency's their side of the story. In pretty quick fashion the kids were all taken away and put in 2 different foster homes. The parents have never been convicted of anything, although I think they must have plea bargained their rights as parents away in lieu of a trial and possible jail time.
The rumors that went around this small town were just vicious. The people who wouldn't so much as blink to help anyone out were the first ones to start gossiping and making accusations against my wife and I and a friend of ours who also helped out with the case (she was a school principal in another town). One rumor had it that my wife and our friend had helped one of the kids run away by driving her eighteen miles out of town and dropping her off at the liquor store so she could hitchhike to the next town 160 miles away (the girl was 13 when she ran away, right after she had told the police her story). There were more, and a lot worse. Most people just thought the girls were lying, or that they were sick of this town and wanted to go to the big city and didn't care how they went about it. Other people actually started rumors about the girls being sluts and could name all sorts of kids and grown men that they "knew" the girls were sleeping with.
Then again, I have heard of lots of cases where parents are falsely accused and go through living hell because of overzealous authorities. Kids do lie, they get crazy ideas in their heads, they are subjected all sorts of influences through TV and media, and they are very impressionable. There are no easy answers for child abuse of any kind, but what is certainly needed is rational consideration and investigation in the first place, and action, not gossip and second-guessing.
"Who, like some evil Atlas, turned the world upside down upon their shoulders, and made shams and delusions into absolute truths, and absolute truths into inviolate heresy?" Elliot Merrick, True North (this may be a misquote, but is close, I don't have th
Nero wrote:
"That sounds suspiciously like a mother or grandmother's words. I don't understand people who want children. It is like allowing insane, filthy dwarves into your home. "
Insane, filthy dwarves? Maybe that's what your parents thought of you, because that statement sounds insane.
How this thread went from child abuse to abortion is beyond me. I agree that the earth is way overpopulated and cannot sustain the consumption that people are subjecting it to. But abortion is a very sad blight on the status of mankind being the evolved creature that holds sway over this planet. The reason this planet is so overcrowded is that there too many people living for too long, and people living unnatural lifestyles supported by the technology and sedentary-supportive society that McDonald's and modern surgery has to offer. Just 200 years ago, you would have never heard of someone weighing 600 pounds, who can't even get out of bed, having a pizza boy bring in his food to them while they lay on a filthy bed watching Oprah on TV. Automobiles make it possible for people who wouldn't survive in the wild to thrive in this concrete maze of frozen dinners and crack houses. There are a lot of ills in this society, but children aren't one of them.
I really do think the Industrial Revolution and technology has doomed the human race, and here I am a part of it. Man is, or at least was, a part of the natural world, but the farther we distance ourselves from the simple life, the more sad our state of affairs become, to the point that we digress into a condition of apathy and inability to affect any real change for the better in terms of "saving" ourselves and the planet we live on.
"Who, like some evil Atlas, turned the world upside down upon their shoulders, and made shams and delusions into absolute truths, and absolute truths into inviolate heresy?" Elliot Merrick, True North (this may be a misquote, but is close, I don't have th
To clarify, the woman was screaming at an already upset toddler who desperately needed to go to the bathroom. She continued to yell at her while they in the stall in a disturbing manner and possibly hitting her child.
Nice job. NOW she'll be able to pee in comfort.
I will say this: I have no tolerance for child abuse in any form. The things I've read and heard have been so disturbing have given me trouble sleeping, eating, etc. While it is normal for parents to lose their temper now and then, there is a difference been yelling out of frusteration and yelling out of sheer anger.
Children respond very emotionally to everything you say and do to them. We need to be cautious about how we treat them. After all, they are the future of the world. And as many people seem to "forget", they're people too, not pets.
*Our world is far more complex than the rigid structure we want to assign to it, and we will probably never fully understand it.*
"Those believers who are sophisticated enough to understand the paradox have found exciting ways to bend logic into pretzel shapes in order to defend the indefensible." - Hamby
I still don't see how you equate possible child abuse with spending government money on hairdo's.
With that kind of reasoning, Christians sent "witches" to death by burning at the stake.
Maybe the next time I see someone buy beer at a convenience store owned by Muslims, I'll shout "You murdering vagina-sewing drunk" and shoot them before they kill someone out on the road, or worse.
"Who, like some evil Atlas, turned the world upside down upon their shoulders, and made shams and delusions into absolute truths, and absolute truths into inviolate heresy?" Elliot Merrick, True North (this may be a misquote, but is close, I don't have th
You're certainly right about that.
However, we should always remember that terms like 'child abuse' are open to interpretation. Keeping this in mind, we should proceed with extreme caution when we decide how broad a definition we are williing to give the term. More so, we should be VERY careful when we decide who it is that's making that call.
Agreed. It's an extremely loaded term. One that evokes extreme emotions and automatic assumptions. While I agree that yelling at a child while she is sitting on the pot is poor judgement at best, and an emotional thing to listen to in a public washroom, use of this label must be done so with extreme caution. Are you, Peppermint, certain that you heard the woman hitting the child? If so, it's something that could be reported.
There are two seasons in Canada, Hockey season and not-Hockey season.
Canada: 16% Atheist and growing.
I think you would serve society best by not saying anything at all. . . ever.
"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer
"I think you would serve society best by not saying anything at all. . . ever."
Funny...I was thinking the same thing of you after the insane dwarves comment.
"Who, like some evil Atlas, turned the world upside down upon their shoulders, and made shams and delusions into absolute truths, and absolute truths into inviolate heresy?" Elliot Merrick, True North (this may be a misquote, but is close, I don't have th
Excuse my bit of sarcasm about the hairdos, Heinous, but the majority of child abusers I've seen from my father's court room are lazy, incompetent parents. I didn't mean it is a totally serious claim, obviously.
I'm well aware child abusers come in all shapes and sizes.
Urbanredd, do you think you have to hit a child for it to be abuse?
"However, we should always remember that terms like 'child abuse' are open to interpretation. Keeping this in mind, we should proceed with extreme caution when we decide how broad a definition we are williing to give the term. More so, we should be VERY careful when we decide who it is that's making that call." -marcusfish
Alright, fine. Here's a typical definition:
"Child abuse" can be defined as causing or permitting any harmful or offensive contact on a child's body; and, any communication or transaction of any kind which humiliates, shames, or frightens the child. Some child development experts go a bit further, and define child abuse as any act or omission, which fails to nurture or in the upbringing of the children.
http://www.indianchild.com/child_abuse.htm
*Our world is far more complex than the rigid structure we want to assign to it, and we will probably never fully understand it.*
"Those believers who are sophisticated enough to understand the paradox have found exciting ways to bend logic into pretzel shapes in order to defend the indefensible." - Hamby
peppermint wrote:
"Excuse my bit of sarcasm about the hairdos, Heinous, but the majority of child abusers I've seen from my father's court room are lazy, incompetent parents. I didn't mean it is a totally serious claim, obviously.
"
But you sure tossed it out at us, kinda like a pork belly contract hidden in tiny print at the bottom of Congressional proposal up for vote. And you didn't think anyone would notice?
I was raised by my Grandparents and I was spoiled rotten rich, I was literally waited on hand and foot. Our nearest neighbors and dearest friends growing up were a very poor family. They had to work very hard for every little thing they had. The mom and dad were janitors at the junior high where their kids and I went to school. They were great, great people and I don't remember them ever spending government money on hairdo's. I will be honest with you, I don't like your elitist sounding BS, you can downplay it all you want, the fact is that you insinuated that poor people abuse their kids.
I was abused as a kid, and I was rich. My Grandparents smoked two packs of cigarrettes a day, each, in the house. They spoiled me rotten to the point that I didn't even know what work was, they discouraged me from working and even going to school because they loved me so much that they didn't want me to leave home. And when they died, what was I left with?
I don't have an issue with anything you said besides the insinuation that was totally unfounded on your part. If you had insinuated Iraqi's or Persians (Iran) or West Virginians or any other group I would have felt the same way.
"Who, like some evil Atlas, turned the world upside down upon their shoulders, and made shams and delusions into absolute truths, and absolute truths into inviolate heresy?" Elliot Merrick, True North (this may be a misquote, but is close, I don't have th
Peppermint, I totally agree that a parent screaming at a child and humiliating them for needing to use the bathroom is completely unacceptable. No "buts" at all. Totally uncalled for. I feel terrible for that kid.
“The four most over-rated things in life are champagne, lobster, anal sex and picnics.”
-Christopher Hitchens
"I don't believe in God, but I'm afraid of Him."
-Gabriel Garcia Marquez
It is not my intention to say that we need a better definition of 'child abuse'. To be honest, I don't think there can be one. All I am saying is that the topic is almost completely subjective and we should go to great pains to ensure that the people making the "good or bad" decision on parenting techniques are monitored. It has been my personal observation that the people in Child Protective Services are the very LAST people I would consider stable enough to have that job. CPS workers, from my experience, are deeply emotionally disturbed people who have no business whatsoever making definitive decisions about OTHER peoples lives.
The definition you provided is extrordinarily vague and could be interpereted in a zillion different ways. There is no good answer and we should be responsible enough to recognize that. Obviously I am not talking about direct physical abuse because even CPS workers are clever enough to pick up on that.
Nope, I don't. However, the physical abuse is more easily proven, especially when the charge is brought forward by a third party. I hate to admit it, but we don't see verbal abuse to be as serious as physical, though the psycological evidence would prove otherwise.
However, and you may be able to enlighten us all on this subject, it seems that psycological evaluations are being given greater respect in the administration of law in this respect. At least, it seems so here in Canada. Can you elaborate on that?
There are two seasons in Canada, Hockey season and not-Hockey season.
Canada: 16% Atheist and growing.
ok.. been a while since I checked on this thread... sorry...
My statements about snipping people forcibly should be taken with at least three grains of salt. I'm the first person in most groups to stand up and bitch about virtually any infringement on personal liberty, and I was speaking of a hypothetical world that will never exist. In the real world, I know this is not a possibility... BUT... it's important to note that in this reality, the lack of sterilized people means the demand for abortion goes up. You have to pick one option or another, because people will screw.
I've never bought into this argument. Potential is no argument for anything because any sperm and egg could make Beethoven or Hitler, theoretically. If we theoretically could let only the top 50% of income earners breed, we'd still get Beethovens and Hitlers.
My position is twofold:
1) It's not necessarily about who's fit to breed. It's about how many should breed. I believe we need to reduce the human population by at least a third before we can reach equilibrium with the ecosystem.
2) However, if you're going to institute population control measures (which isn't going to happen, so this is all moot) you might as well stop some of the poorest people from having huge families.
I'm not sure what the deal was with this film, but when Irish immigration hit its peak in New York, much of the anti-Irish sentiment was based on the idea that they were an inferior, lazy race. Economic conditions were not too different from rural areas today where Mexican immigrants are taking jobs from poor white men. Not really here nor there for this discussion, but fact, anyway.
Like I said, my little rant is meant for a different world. In this world, I know people won't stop making babies, and the most I can do is try to be so freakin' radical about not reproducing that maybe I can influence a few people over my life, and maybe they'll think, "Hey, not reproducing is a pretty ok thing... at least it's not as bad as what this lunatic is promoting..."
I know. So, how about if everyone reading this just stops making babies. The world will be a little less populated, and we won't have to bust your door down and give you a prostate exam.
Big Brother is watching you screw.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Shifting Center ... one of the things I think the RRS is here to do in fhe first place.
I'm going to stop breeding to support your revolution.
How did we move from child abuse to the omni-state and eugenics?
Domino principle.. I'm sure her parents didn't have time for her either. A little verbal abuse and selfishness, that's a good cocktail to feed your kid.
You know.. whenever I go to a restaurant or store and walk by a bathroom with my 5 year old son, inevitably he'll have to go, regardless if he just went 5 minutes before at home. He likes to figure out which one is the men's room and be sure and point out the lady's room, throwing a warning my way to not go in there by mistake. He then goes through the whole bathroom routine himself, i'll spare the details but I assume overall it makes him feel like a big person and that he's finally tackled this bathroom thing.. I couldn't imagine ruining that for him by yelling at him.
Your mind will answer most questions if you learn to relax and wait for the answer. - William S. Burroughs
It is a pretty clear transition, no? All topics have a mere six degrees of separation.
"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer
How did we move from child
Sometimes I don't spell things out as clearly as I should. Child abuse and overpopulation are linked, but not directly. Abortion is discouraged and vilified. Women are punished, ostracized, labeled as "murderer," etc... if they have one. This means that lots and lots of women have children they don't want. This leads to anger, resentment... abuse. The first step in this is getting abortion off of the "really bad things" list. The second, in my humble opinion, is to encourage abortion, because it kills two embryos... erm... birds with one forcep... err... stone...
Where was I?
Oh, yeah... If we encourage abortion, unwanted babies are not born. Child abuse goes down as a result. Further, the population of the world goes down, we don't destroy our own habitat as much, the earth replenishes resources, and we live for thousands more years as a species.
So, yeah... related, but not exactly on topic. I know.
[MOD EDIT - fixed quotes]
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Well, it's not really all that mind boggling, but it was easy enough to follow. Someone just needs to make a really good tongue-in-cheek smilie so I can post it behind my slightly smart-assed comments. Thanks for the coles notes version, though.
There are two seasons in Canada, Hockey season and not-Hockey season.
Canada: 16% Atheist and growing.
heh... smiley face with abnormally large cheek noted...
I spend more time than you'd imagine spelling out things that I thought were patently obvious, though.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
"Oh, yeah... If we encourage abortion, unwanted babies are not born. Child abuse goes down as a result. Further, the population of the world goes down, we don't destroy our own habitat as much, the earth replenishes resources, and we live for thousands more years as a species.
So, yeah... related, but not exactly on topic. I know."
Yeah man, right on, kill babies, stop child abuse, stop the population explosion so we can live forever...I need a fucking Neil Young gif of him just strumming the guitar and screaming, "Keep on rocking in the free world". WTF?
"Who, like some evil Atlas, turned the world upside down upon their shoulders, and made shams and delusions into absolute truths, and absolute truths into inviolate heresy?" Elliot Merrick, True North (this may be a misquote, but is close, I don't have th