So I went to church this morning.
Offline That's right. Me.
Iruka went to church. 
It was a Unitarian Universalist service where I was invited to sing. I sang my arrangement of Tom Waits' "Shiver Me Timbers" and "Shenandoah." So, no, I didn't (won't if I can help it) sing about Jebus or his psychopathic, sadomasochistic daddy. I was accompanied on keyboard by my Zen Buddhist voice teacher and a wonderful (atheist, I think) flutist. Singing can be "spiritual" experience for me, especially when accompanied by excellent musicians.
The UU has expressed a desire to get involved with what is happening in our country. They say they respect the separation of church and state, but I'm wondering just how much they could (or should) get involved.
Earlier I was over on Sapient's "next big project" thread, thinking it would be cool to get fundy churches busted for endorsing political causes and candidates. I agree with most of the UU's political positions. In fact, about the only thing that holds the UU church together is their political views...but wouldn't it be hypocritical of them to become involved in politics?
How "involved" could they get and still be safe on the issue of separation of church and state?
I tried to bring this up, but it went over most of their heads. One guy even said that the separation of church and state was to protect the church, not the state. I didn't get a chance to set the fellow straight. My fellow musicians were indicating it was time for me to STFU. I tend to be outspoken.
What do you think?
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If the UU pays taxes, they can get as involved as they want. If they don't, then technically, they cannot endorse any political candidates, either at their meetings, or through donations, or through donated time or work.
As far as them getting involved in politics on the down-low, I'd love to see a concerted effort to get behind non-fascist candidates and promote liberalism and/or libertarianism across the country. Of course, I've noticed that getting five UUs in one room to agree on an action is vaguely akin to herding cats. Doing it across the country? Hard to imagine.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
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I asked them about paying taxes, but they didn't think their version of "getting involved" violates the separation of church and state. Of course not. What church does?
As for getting them to agree, we atheists have the same problem don't we?
Still, we (and they) can agree on some issues. Hopefully we can get it together enough to make a difference.
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The trick, of course, is to realize that the #1 issue (or at least #2 or #3... I'm trying to compromise here...) is that we have had habeus corpus taken away in America. The military bill that the shrub just passed literally ended due process for American citizens.
Without the right to due process, protest, activism, and opposition to the government become impossible.
We gotta find a candidate who not only can win, but who will repeal the Patriot Acts and the military tribunals. Otherwise, we're just pissing up a rope.
Once we find that candidate, how do you convince enough voters how important this is? Once you do that, how do you defeat a rigged election system? Once you do that, how do you defeat a permanently divided congress? Once you do that, how do you stay in office when all the theists in the country are going to want to vote you out?
It's enough to make me despair.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Should their involvement be limitted to protecting the ammendment than I see little problem with that involvement. However, I rather doubt it would end there.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
I am so with you, Hamby. I had to take a hiatus from politics because I was suffering from outrage fatigue. I was (am) seriously freaked out by all that has happened recently. At one point I thought that the most important issue was ensuring fair elections, but everything you've mentioned is important. The government is one big dog and pony show. Add in the possible effects of global warming / climate change and we've got a Gordian knot. It's tempting to use the sword rather than decide where to start unraveling it.
When my health allows--if it allows--I will probably get involved again, but I need a new place to start. Election reform doesn't even begin to cover it.
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They don't care about breaking laws and trashing the Constitution NOW. What's to stop them from continuing the trend?
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Indeed. So overall I must respectfully ask them to keep it to themselves.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
It's funny how somepeople can miss the point so so skillfully.
I'd say, in part, it exists to protect the church from the other churches, not the state.
As a non-american have many problems with America but your bill of rights shows great wisdom. Most counties that consider themselves modern don't have the rights of the people set out so clearly in the definition of their nation.
It's just a shame how those in authority over there seem to have so little respect for their own constitution. Maybe someone should bring the bill of rights down from mt rushmore carved on two stone tablets and claim they were from god.
Oh, a lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!