My Issues with the Pledge of Allegiance
Offline I have two main concerns with the ‘pledge of allegiance’
1. The first one and the less minor on is the term “Under God” and I won’t get into this here
2. The importantly one is that subjects public student to stand and take an oath of pledge to their country, but I will elaborate on this.
I think our founding, deistic father would have a problem with this. To me, subjecting me to standing up and taking the ‘pledge’ is against my right. As a student (I am 28 now), but once got reprimanded for sitting down during the pledge.
To me the pledge of allegiance nurtures patriotism and nationalism, both with I have issues with. I love America and am grateful that I was born and raised here, but my love and gratefulness does not deserve ‘blind’ patriotism and nationalism.
Here are two possible conflicting definitions of a patriot:
1. a person who loves, supports, and defends his or her country and its interests with devotion.
2. a person who regards himself or herself as a defender, esp. of individual rights, against presumed interference by the federal government.
When you do not support your country when they infringe on individual rights are you unpatriotic?
"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing.....It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government." Jefferson in a letter to Madison concerning Shay's Rebellion
http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/summer/letter.html
Jefferson was a deist who thought jesus taught good moral lessons. I think Jefferson would be turning in our grave knowing that public school children are subject to the ‘pledge of allegiance’; not only because of the phrase “under God”, but because it implies patriotism “I pledge allegiance to flag of the United States”. I don’t when they take away my individual rights.
As a child I felt uncomfortable with saying “under God”, but felt sick when I was ordered every day to stand and take a pledge. I had a right to sit down and not participate.
I asked to be banned, so I was banned.
The first one you should have issues with and why you call them minor is beyond me.
The second "oath" issue doesnt make sense to me either. "Oaths" are no different than a written contract. The only stipulation is that any oath, just like any contract you sign, should be entered into voluntaraly and should not be manditory.
I have a problem with the oath in it's current state with "under God". And "blind" worship of anything, be it a celibrity, political party, religion, or nation is bad.
But you take part in "oaths" every day. You sign a check you are taking an "oath" making a promise that the cash will back up the check. When you rent an apartment you sign a contract taking an oath to pay a certain fee per month to live there. Those contracts are voluntary just as the pledge should be.
"Oaths" are nothing but oral contracts. You shouldnt blindly take them just as you shoudn't blindly sign a loan agreement or credit card aplication.
And I think you also demonize patriotism needlessly too. Like I said, any type of sheepish following pretending that your (religion, politician, nation) shit dont stink, is bad.
But loving your country without being while recognizing and pointing out its faults is not sheepish behaivor. The highest form of patriotism is not sheepish behaivor, it is when you point out it's flaws in order to improve it.
The type of patriotism you object to, I do too. Hitler's germany was very sheepish. That was worship of a state and a man, and that is just plane stupid and has nothing to do with patriotism and everything to do with dogmatism.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I got in trouble once for not saying "under god" in the bible. My teacher saying I was being unpatriotic. Its things like that that make my question the merit of the pledge. But I agree with brian37 for the most part, its just an oral contract and its good to show your patriotism to your country without being a sheep.
I do have an issue with it and it is perhaps minor only relatively. I just want to discuss the problem of the pledge of allegiance without the discussion of "Under God".
As a child, as I always felt uncormtable saying "under God", but it pissed me off more that I was demanded to participate in the pledge of allegiance every school day.
I asked to be banned, so I was banned.
The problem isnt the pledge other than "under God". The problem is society indoctrinating kids who are spounges teaching them not to think and to blindly follow. That is the wrong kind of patriotism.
It is no different when someone says to you, "Your dad is an alcoholic". If you've been blindly taught that daddy's poop dont ever stink, when someone might point out reality to you, insted of seeing the truth you want to punch them in the face.
But, lets say you are proud of your parents, but rational enough to know they make mistakes, then when someone says the same to that person they respond, "What behaviors demonstrate that he is", then if proven to be true, the person works to help their parent.
I see nothing wrong with the pledge without "under God". But with or without it it children need to be taught critical thinking skills and should not be taught to blindly regurgitate anythin
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
That reminds me of something I read in "Lies and the Lying Liars Who tell Them."
"Liberals love America like adults love each other - they love America but realize when America is doing something wrong and want it to change. Conservatives love America like a 3 year old loves his mommy - Mommy is always right and anyone who criticizes "Mommy" is bad and wrong."
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
Here's a brief history of the Pledge of Allegiance:
http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm
The words "under God" weren't added until the 1950's (almost 60 years after the pledge was written).
Getting the words out is kind of like trying to get the words "in God we trust" off of US currency. Once something has been around for a while, it's harder to get rid of. Like religion.
When I was in school, I stood during the pledge but stopped saying it after a while. Not just because of the "under God" bit, but I always thought it was also a lame attempt at instilling national pride. And as I got older, the "liberty and justice for all" part just became ridiculous.
Nobody I know was brainwashed into being an atheist.
Why Believe?
This is my point exactly. "under god" is a relatively minor point compared to the participation of the pledge of allegiance.
Kids would get more nourishment eating a banana than reciting the pledge (with or without 'god'
I asked to be banned, so I was banned.