What's justice for one may not be justice for another.

While justice for everyone would be nice, perhaps even compassionate, it doesn't work that way.

Who gets to decide what justice is?  For instance, what if you had a loved one killed by a drunk driver?  The bereaved insist that justice would be life in prison for the drunk driver.

Add this into the equation.  The drunk driver is 45 years old.  It's the first time in his/her life they have been drunk.  They had two drinks at a friend's house when they got a phone call that their disabled spouse has had a dire medical emergency and is on the verge of dying.  On top of that, the drunk driver is the sole support of this spouse and five children.  This person, not realizing they had too much to drink, was racing to their spouse's bedside.

Now, where is justice and where is compassion and who gets to decide?

Again, it's situational and subjective.  There is no reason at all to make a choice because the final conclusion may tip either way depending on the circumstances.

Well, I do not see why forced justice won't leave any room for compassion. We can teach our children, friends, and citizen to be compassionate.

You wrote:

I am not disagreeing with you fully, just partially.

Three Strikes law is unfair, unjust.

Three strikes law is like trying to kill a fly with a sledge hammer. Three strike law is more of politics than justice. My question of Justice vs. Compassion was about true justice - not today's many idiotic national and internatinal laws.

This brings us to the topic of Human Behavior modification techniques - crime and punishment. I am a great fan of B.F. Skinner - Famous sociologist/psychologist.IMHO, there are 3 elements needed in punishment and one additional one for altering behavior

1) Severity

2) Certainty

3) Promptness

California is incapable of providing 2 and 3 therefore they just increased the 1. Most difficult is 2.

All men (women) are neither created equal nor attain equal status, wealth, skill, and intellect in their life time.

Thomas Jafferson was wrong saying "All men are created equal." -That's a faith of atheist Jafferson.

We cannot demand someone else to pay for the injustices done by the nature to unfortunates.

Unless we put all the laws of nations, including international laws on trial in the court of our mind we will never get the truth. Take nothing, no laws for granted. World is full of unfair laws. That is not justice.

One of the implication of tilting toward justice over compassion is that there will be very poor and very rich people in the world.

Too much compassion will work against the evolution/natural selection theory.  A slight off balance compassion over justice can make capable be extinct. Capable can be eaten up by the sheer number of incapables.

Your idea of justice is an ideal.  Justice is not necessarily fair, it is what the powers that be say it is.  What I think is justice, another may not.  It's still subjective.   

But why the question in the first place?  You clearly think that justice and compassion have some sort of relevance.  Are they related?  What are your thoughts on this? 

I was referring specifically to your post regarding Nero.  It was cryptic.  

We are a skeptical bunch here.  There are things that perhaps don't make sense with some people around here. I have not made any personal decision regarding whether you are an atheist, theist, jihadist or apostate.  In my opinion, we are also an accepting bunch.  Feel free to tell us a bit more about yourself.  And again, all of this is my own personal opinion.  I speak for no one else.

That being said - I agree with you regarding selfishness vs. altruism.  However, I don't think selfishness should be equated with justice. Justice is slightly more accommodating (ideally) than selfishness.  I'm not quite sure what you're getting at with regard to justice. 

Susan, pariahjane and whoever is interested in:

Pariahjane, Oh, no. I am not equating selfishness with Justice. No way. As a matter of fact selfishness is a hinderence in justice.

You wanted to know more about myself. I will get into that halfway down in this post.

Susan, You are right in describing above scenario. Figuring out what is justice in each individual case is not easy.What can I say? Yes, you are correct.

Having said that... Please read the following carefully. [Please, for a moment take my side in your own mind and fill in any gaps/blanks I might have left out due to my poor English or hasty typing.] 

So, how far one should seek out the reason behind a wrong doing?

Where do we stop?

How about taking into consideration of one's upbringing, poverty, lack of education?How about genetic code?

How about the perpetrator's forefather's bad gene or his bad influence?

See, if one considers all the factors then at the end of the day it is no one's fault. An conclusion of a true compassionate person and a true justice lover both of whom takes everything under the sun into account.

No one’s fault? What this got to do with Free Will? Right?

A philosopher once said "Give me a piece of rock and I can take that rock under my microscope and eventually I will tell you past, present and the future of this universe." I never forgot this since I learned this 40 years ago in my childhood. I understood it.

40 years later, Now, I say:

Give me two things that no matter how different or disconnected might appear on the surface but after a lot of thinking I can show you at least one thing in common in them.

Corollary: Give me two things that no matter how similar it might appear I can show you at least one thing in which they differ. 

That brings us to discussion of a smart mind and enlightened mind. An enlightened mind sees things holistically, in coherence with nature. Consistent logic all across the board is the ultimate justice that I advocate and passionate about it.

An enlightened mind is fully networked mind - all thoughts are cross checked, and being cross checked every minute. Take no prisoner. Accept nothing for granted.

Any one can have few principles, here and there, (there is no god, or there is god) in disconnected fashion and never bother to cross check them. What that got to do with Brain washing versus understood one? Right?

 Neurons are too precious not to have them fully networked to realize it's full potential. Power of a network grows geometrically with the number of connection. yes, every single post of mine is connected and has rational relationship.

 pariahjane

I am not equating selfishness with justice.

Now, about personal question. Yes, I can tell you few things about myself but I hope you will reciprocate.

I was born and raised in a theist family. In second half of my teen age I figured out No Free Will thingy. Then I left my religion for good. Never ever regretted. I then fell in love. I fell in love with truth. Rest is history.

That was a long time ago. I am not sure how much should I give away my personal thing.

I am a male. I have multiple Master degrees in scientific fields. I have read many, many, many books. But that is not what I am proud of the most. I am proud of being able to connect the dots.

No, I was not born in the US. I am a foreign born us citizen. English is my 2nd language.

30 years ago, I figured out taht although not perfect, nor is number 1 in every respect but US is the best country for the people who are willing to work hard, smart and long hours. But US is not so good of a country for somewhat challenged people - Europe will be better for hem.

Fortunately, I was able to free myself from the handcuff of money by saving enough and learning and investing in the stock market for my very, very early retirement. Therefore, I could spend time learning and doing what I love and not what my boss tell me to do. Need for money and even of love, friendship can be weakness when looking for the truth - Remember Budha! I was fortunate enough to reduce my dependence on these things.

Unfortunately, my loved ones are still under the influence of the brain drug, religion. It pains me a lot. For this I almost cry whenever I think of them. I am trying to free them from this drug. I shouldn't tell you anything more specific about it.

Then I realized that many atheists are brain washed in believing in no god as all theists are brain washed in believing there is a god. In the last 5 years I conducted my own first hand poll and concluded that about 50% atheists are brain washed just as all theists are. I do not want to converse with these brain washed atheist.

I then started to ponder what we mean when we say xyz person is just reciting the theorem by rote memory but person abc understands.What is the difference between brainwash and understood? What is the difference in state of mind? I figured it out. I am going to post my 13 commandments in a separate threads just for you. 13 items there means nothing unless one can connect them in their mind from thousands of different angle. That is when the light bulb comes on.

Obviously, no individual, no group of people, no business, no country is perfect.

Now you tell me about yourself. is that your picture.

Zzzzz... im still waiting for tim to respond to any of my posts in any of the threads... zzzzzz...

I already have responded, plese scroll up/back and look.

No, no.

I responded after that. I am pretty sure. Please scroll down from there.

I responded to everyone's post.

Please do not get me wrong. I do not intent to ignore me. I respect you. I might learn few things from you too.

The only thing I can not stand is unreasonable person they are all around you. That is why I come to the atheists side expecting a higher percentage of reasonable people.

Go ahead start any topic ask any question. I will participate - unless i know nothing about it.

I am looking for serious people. Very serious, I mean very, very serious.

Well, it takes more time for me to find the response.

If you can kindly cut and post your question here again I will respond. I will respond seriously.

But you know, unless you are the person doling out the punishment for whatever crime, it doesn't matter.  No reason to strain your brain unless it's warranted.

Justice should always take precedence when concerning matters of the law and compassion should be used when dealing with the weak who are in need of assistance from the strong. And for someone who might say what if one of the weak breaks the law with good intentions; like a man stealing to feed his family. I believe in reason and logic therefore JUSTICE.