Non 'freethinking' friends.
Offline Ok, I know the RRS stands on a hard-line position when it comes to Abrahamic beliefs,
but I find that I frequently entertain friends that are Abrahamic.
I was wondering what other people do/think about this.
You see, I live in a moderately religious area (Iowa).
Anecdotally, I find that about 50% of the people I meet will say "I am Christian./I am Jewish./I am muslim"
I meet very few atheists/agnostics, and the rest of the remaining half have these non-committal "deist/'spiritualist'/pagan/I dont know" kind of beliefs.
I would say about 10-15% are openly offended by my beliefs.
(I only gave these numbers because I am discussing my own experiences. Don't, in any way, think these are tested numbers. I'm just trying to give a general idea.)
I watched an interview with Douglas Adams in which he said that he was friends with
very few non-agnostics/non-atheists, and that statement took me by surprise.
Again, RRS has some hard-line beliefs dealing with the intellectualism of the Abrahamic (at least) beliefs,
and I agree that Abrahamic followers are either deluded or lying.
However, it's never been much more of a big deal to me than being friends with someone
who holds different political beliefs (laws/politicians/how society works) or different beliefs on more social things.
I've always entertained discussions with Abrahamic followers,
hearing their "arguments" (which are usually shitty, and they don't know),
explaining why there are contradictions and illogical jumps,
and finishing the logical discourse on good terms.
I've never seen reason to disown friends over this,
and I've felt I probably generally do more for the cause of atheism (is this a misnomer?)
since the theists never seem to know why I can say things like,
"That's the cosmological argument, and..."
or
"That's called Pascal's wager, and..."
or
"That's the same as the watchmaker argument proposed by Cicero and Descartes..."
I've always hoped that one or two of them would go home and remember when I mentioned specific arguments
or writers, and, in the quest to find out why I'm wrong end up converting to atheism/agnosticism (or at least educating themselves).
So, to make a short question long,
do you guys/ladies entertain the Abrahamics in real life or just ignore them altogether?
I mean, do you have any Abrahamic friends? Does it bother you much?
Do you openly scream in their face when they say "I am a xian/muslim/Jew"?
*disclaimer* I don't talk to or associate with fundies or otherwise COMPLETELY deluded people (campus crusade for Christ cretins).
I generally only make friends with the people that have at least questioned their beliefs and are (obviously) not openly offended by mine.
I use the same discretion I have seen my gay friends use. If I'm relatively certain that I'm not going to get knifed,
and the subject comes up I try to make it completely clear.
Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.
George Orwell.
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You consider Iowa moderately religious? Heck, that's still bible belt country in my opinion.
I'm guessing that perhaps you meet mostly young people. I wonder what your observations would be if you were hanging around the 30+ or 40+ crowd.
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Well, I almost said something along those lines, but I knew someone would come on here and use the admission that Iowa is damn religious to start a war on how much more religious their state is.
"You live in Iowa. That's nothing. I live in Texas har har har. That's some religion 4u gohome!"
If I were interested in that conversation, my post would look a lot different.
Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.
George Orwell.
I'm in Missouri and I think we're pretty much in the same boat, so to speak.
Creed and behavior are not always connected. Some people compartmentalize belief and live their life away from it.
Meaningful friendship arises from personal chemistry and is not exclusively based on intellectual agreement. Kind of like karma, a wave we ride rather than create.
For my part I wouldn't reject anyone due to religious belief. I wouldn't hang around anyone who is obsessive on religion (or atheism, or any ism) as I think life shouldn't be talked to death.
Go with your instincts--this usually leads to pretty good connections.
By some of your previous comments, I have figured that you haven't left your second decade of life yet. I would imagine that the vast majority of your soirees involve similarly aged individuals. It is of little surprise that religion is a matter of discourse for you. That is a prime age for the exploration of these issues.
I think you will find that as you leave that particular stage of life, someone's religion ceases to be of importance in polite society. That is to say, I entertain an array of people for a variety of reasons: personal, business, charity, etc. I find no reason to challenge anyone in their beliefs because the topic of religion is taboo in polite society.
The host controls the tenor of the dinner conversation. There are a host of conversations that might occur without the intervention of religion. Should someone bring up religion, simply and gently change the discourse. If the person reverts to the subject, suggest that you don't allow political or religious groups to distribute handbills during the meal because it disrupts digestion.
As long as you smile when you say it, most at a table will laugh about the comment, and the topic will be dropped. If, however, you have someone who is persistent, you might ask the conversation to be dropped altogether without any guile.
Now, if you are the one who brings up this topic, know that it belongs in the same list with commerce, the dead, current political matters, and gossip (just to name a few). These are forbidden from polite, dinner conversation. So, if you commence and your guests follow, you are the only one to blame.
For further explanation, please read some of Amy Vanderbilt's "The Complete Guide to Etiquette." It is quite excellent and provides sagely advice for the tyro.
"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer
Religion is a topic that is seldom discussed between myself and friends. I certainly don't bring it up, but I am always open to discuss it if they want to. Most of my friends are non-religious; it just doesn't play a part in their lives and they are content not to think about it. Some are moderately religious. It's really not a big deal. We respect each other and we'd rather be friends then quibble about beliefs.
If god takes life he's an indian giver
Well, it's a two-sided thing. I have mostly atheist or agnostic close friends, but that is largely because I seek them out, and I live in the one tiny bastien of liberal thought in Georgia, so they're a bit easier to find.
I don't have any fundie friends because they're crazy in the head, and I don't like having crazy people for friends.
Among my acquaintances, social friends, and general going out crowd, I'd imagine the percentages are about the same as the rest of the county, whatever that is. I don't ask, and it seldom comes up. Sports is a much more interesting conversation at a bar. That or sex. Or wine. Or anything, really.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
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I am still not entirely certain on whether religious people are allowed here, so I cannot comment on your conjecture.
"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.
-Me
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A lot of my friends are atheists/agnostics but the question of religion is never something that I bring up until I know someone reasonably well - of course they may bring it up first. I don't think that I've ever met anybody whom I've stopped being friends with over religion. I ave had a number of debates with religious friends but we still remain friends. I think for me, being an atheist and a good friend sends out sucha positive image to y religious freinds that it may make them doubt even more - certainly realise that you don't have to be religious to be a good person.
"The World is my country, science my religion" - Christiaan Huygens
Dude, since we are at the same school together, i must warn you that ISU can get incrediably religious at times. There are usually huge uproars when someone wants to do something to protect separation of church and state, or if you basically tell them ID isn't a science. So i wouldn't say its quite that moderate. Now if you go too Iowa city that place is relgiiously moderate so it depends mostly.
Oh yea when the travel pastors come around me and you should get together to pwn a fundy
.
Do you mean Iowa State University? I go there. I agree that most people here belong to a church, but not that they are overly religious, mostly apathetic.
I can't stand that travel pastor. He can't be reasoned with.
Yes i mean Iowa State. And you talking about Tom Short?
Do you go to AAS?
zntneo: I'm up for owning any god damn fundie that steps foot on my campus. IC is a lot more...liberal...about pretty much everything. I almost went there, but since I'm an engineer I came here. Today by the UDCC I saw some of those fake Christian guys passing out "free chances to win pizza justsignhere plzkthx" My friend Mohammed didn't understand that it was just an excuse to witness to him (through mail, social events, or whatever).
Everyone else: I don't really ever bring the topic up personally but it comes up now and then. Besides, I generally know the religion of my friends. Thanks for the input.
Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.
George Orwell.
Yes Tom Short. He's not very likable.
No, I never have time to go to AAS, unfortunately. Sometimes I make it to lectures, last one I was a was biblical morality with Hector Avalos. It was nice.
I hope he comes this year. I took 2 days off from work and class last year to listen to him and discuss when possible with him last time i saw him here.