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Would you let a YEC Ear, Nose and Throat Specialist treat you?

Posted on: September 3, 2007 - 10:44pm
Iruka Naminori
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Would you let a YEC Ear, Nose and Throat Specialist treat you?

Howdy Folks,

As some of you know, I've been sick for over a month now and I'm running out of options due to lack of good doctors in the area.  My own primary care physician has refused to see me.  He's "too busy...make an appointment."  When I showed up for the appointment, I was told I would have to reschedule.  After waiting awhile, I got fed up and left.  I suppose I'll try to contact his office again tomorrow.

In the meantime I've seen a cadre of doctors and nurse practitioners at other places who keep telling me to go see my primary care physician who won't see me because he's too busy.    The last health care provider I saw was a nurse practitioner with terrible critical thinking skills.  Because I was fed up, I called her on it.  Obviously, that doesn't win friends and influence people, but I didn't know what else to do.  She told me I'd have to see the ear, nose and throat specialist.

Last time I saw him, he was the only one who would see people with my kind of insurance...and I found out he's a young earth creationist.  Various people have reassured me, commenting on the ability of professionals to "compartmentalize" their thinking.  Unfortunately, I have had bad experiences with fundamentalist Christian doctors who are unable to do this, so I'm not terribly excited about seeing the ear, nose and throat specialist if he's still the only one available to me.  If he denies evolution, how can I trust him to treat me for infection by microbes, which evolve much more quickly than large organisms?

Again, it's possible he may be able to compartmentalize, but I'm not counting on it.

If I acknowledge that I do not want to be treated by a fundamentalist Christian, this opens up a can of worms: Should fundamentalists be  allowed  to work in certain professions?  This is a scary topic.  Any time there's even a thought in my mind about discriminating against an entire group I want to examine it closely.  The liberal part of me positively squirms when I even think of discriminating on my own behalf, let alone making it public policy.

Obviously, there's zero danger of barring fundies from certain professions right now (they're in charge, after all), but in the future (if we have a future), there may come a time when the religious are disciminated against.  On a personal level, I discriminate against them already in my choice of friends and (apparently) doctors.  My personal feeling is that fundamentalists should not be psychologists or psychiatrists.  That's putting crazy people in charge of the loony-bin.  I'm beginning to think they shouldn't be doctors, nurses or pharmacists, either, if it affects their job performance.

Is this discrimination?  Do these people have a choice in what they believe? Up to a point, they don't.  They believe according to what they've been taught, although some of them are willfully ignorant and believe no matter what.

Can a fundamentalist function well in certain jobs that require objectivity and critical thinking skills?  Would you trust one to counsel a family member on emotional issues?  I sure as hell wouldn't!

Because I have a friend who is a psychologist, I know more than I probably should about local health care practitioners, especially those involved in mental health.  The psychiatrist in charge of in-patient care is a fundamentalist.  I've heard stories from three different sources that she inappropriately brings her religion into the equation.  She told one patient to "go home and pray."  In my opinion this woman should be fired, but what are the chances of that happening in this fundamentalist county?  Very, very slim.

Thoughts? 

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Posted on: September 3, 2007 - 11:13pm #1
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Damn, that sucks. I've been

Damn, that sucks. I've been losing my balance lately and it is more than likely my inner ear. The ENT specialist I've been seeing is an oriental woman with a very good reputation and no evidence of any religion.

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Posted on: September 3, 2007 - 11:34pm #2
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I actually refuse the

I actually refuse the services of any doctor who is theist. I don't want any medical professional touching me who thinks that, if I die, I'll be going to a better place.


Posted on: September 18, 2007 - 1:11pm #3
Iruka Naminori
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It looks like my health is

It looks like my health is going to be in the hands of the YEC ear, nose and throat specialist.  I'm not sure how to feel about this.  It could be he is perfectly competent, but I have had bad experiences with fundy doctors.

If I went down to UC Davis and demanded to see an ENT (would need help getting there), would they see me or would I have to follow the rules?  The rules are simply this: I can only see two ENTs which work out of the same office here in my home town.  I have no other recourse.

Also, I have to wait until October 9th, I think, before I can see a specialist...

I wonder if I could find a loophole somewhere? 

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Posted on: September 19, 2007 - 3:22am #4
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Iruka Naminori

Iruka Naminori wrote:

Howdy Folks,

As some of you know, I've been sick for over a month now and I'm running out of options due to lack of good doctors in the area. My own primary care physician has refused to see me. He's "too busy...make an appointment." When I showed up for the appointment, I was told I would have to reschedule. After waiting awhile, I got fed up and left. I suppose I'll try to contact his office again tomorrow.

In the meantime I've seen a cadre of doctors and nurse practitioners at other places who keep telling me to go see my primary care physician who won't see me because he's too busy. The last health care provider I saw was a nurse practitioner with terrible critical thinking skills. Because I was fed up, I called her on it. Obviously, that doesn't win friends and influence people, but I didn't know what else to do. She told me I'd have to see the ear, nose and throat specialist.

Last time I saw him, he was the only one who would see people with my kind of insurance...and I found out he's a young earth creationist. Various people have reassured me, commenting on the ability of professionals to "compartmentalize" their thinking. Unfortunately, I have had bad experiences with fundamentalist Christian doctors who are unable to do this, so I'm not terribly excited about seeing the ear, nose and throat specialist if he's still the only one available to me. If he denies evolution, how can I trust him to treat me for infection by microbes, which evolve much more quickly than large organisms?

Again, it's possible he may be able to compartmentalize, but I'm not counting on it.

If I acknowledge that I do not want to be treated by a fundamentalist Christian, this opens up a can of worms: Should fundamentalists be allowed to work in certain professions? This is a scary topic. Any time there's even a thought in my mind about discriminating against an entire group I want to examine it closely. The liberal part of me positively squirms when I even think of discriminating on my own behalf, let alone making it public policy.

Obviously, there's zero danger of barring fundies from certain professions right now (they're in charge, after all), but in the future (if we have a future), there may come a time when the religious are disciminated against. On a personal level, I discriminate against them already in my choice of friends and (apparently) doctors. My personal feeling is that fundamentalists should not be psychologists or psychiatrists. That's putting crazy people in charge of the loony-bin. I'm beginning to think they shouldn't be doctors, nurses or pharmacists, either, if it affects their job performance.

Is this discrimination? Do these people have a choice in what they believe? Up to a point, they don't. They believe according to what they've been taught, although some of them are willfully ignorant and believe no matter what.

Can a fundamentalist function well in certain jobs that require objectivity and critical thinking skills? Would you trust one to counsel a family member on emotional issues? I sure as hell wouldn't!

Because I have a friend who is a psychologist, I know more than I probably should about local health care practitioners, especially those involved in mental health. The psychiatrist in charge of in-patient care is a fundamentalist. I've heard stories from three different sources that she inappropriately brings her religion into the equation. She told one patient to "go home and pray." In my opinion this woman should be fired, but what are the chances of that happening in this fundamentalist county? Very, very slim.

Thoughts?

This is interesting.

I myself have a fundie, creationist doctor (I'm not 100% certain as to whether he's Young Earth or not, but I think it's more likely that he is). This guy does give me medical advice, gives me monthly allergy shots, prescribes medication, etc. He knows I'm an atheist (again, I'm more or less out of the closet now, only certain family members still think I'm christian). I know he has, in the past, when he couldn't give any advice, told people to pray. However, with me (when I was christian) I've never had him tell me to pray without giving me something else as well. In other words, prayer was always a supplement for the drugs.

One thing about fundies is that they believe in "micro-evolution" and thus they would know about bacteria evolving. It's a nice little mental trick to allow learned people to believe in evolution while not believing in it.

I do think it would be discriminatory to say "no fundamentalist doctors, period". But some belief systems should bar people from certain jobs. I would think Reagan's infamous Minister of Interior who said there was no need for environmental legislation because Jesus was coming back would be a grand example. White Nationalists should be barred from jobs in the immigration department, since most are against immigration of non-whites. Fundies shouldn't teach evolution, ever. But these people who should be barred from some jobs due to their beliefs are probably few and far between.

I'd say that shrink SHOULD be fired, but only if prayer was the ONLY thing she prescribed. Did she say "take these pills, change your diet and pray" or "just pray"? 

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Posted on: September 27, 2007 - 3:34pm #5
Iruka Naminori
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BenfromCanada wrote:

BenfromCanada wrote:
Iruka Naminori wrote:

Howdy Folks,

As some of you know, I've been sick for over a month now and I'm running out of options due to lack of good doctors in the area. My own primary care physician has refused to see me. He's "too busy...make an appointment." When I showed up for the appointment, I was told I would have to reschedule. After waiting awhile, I got fed up and left. I suppose I'll try to contact his office again tomorrow.

In the meantime I've seen a cadre of doctors and nurse practitioners at other places who keep telling me to go see my primary care physician who won't see me because he's too busy. The last health care provider I saw was a nurse practitioner with terrible critical thinking skills. Because I was fed up, I called her on it. Obviously, that doesn't win friends and influence people, but I didn't know what else to do. She told me I'd have to see the ear, nose and throat specialist.

Last time I saw him, he was the only one who would see people with my kind of insurance...and I found out he's a young earth creationist. Various people have reassured me, commenting on the ability of professionals to "compartmentalize" their thinking. Unfortunately, I have had bad experiences with fundamentalist Christian doctors who are unable to do this, so I'm not terribly excited about seeing the ear, nose and throat specialist if he's still the only one available to me. If he denies evolution, how can I trust him to treat me for infection by microbes, which evolve much more quickly than large organisms?

Again, it's possible he may be able to compartmentalize, but I'm not counting on it.

If I acknowledge that I do not want to be treated by a fundamentalist Christian, this opens up a can of worms: Should fundamentalists be allowed to work in certain professions? This is a scary topic. Any time there's even a thought in my mind about discriminating against an entire group I want to examine it closely. The liberal part of me positively squirms when I even think of discriminating on my own behalf, let alone making it public policy.

Obviously, there's zero danger of barring fundies from certain professions right now (they're in charge, after all), but in the future (if we have a future), there may come a time when the religious are disciminated against. On a personal level, I discriminate against them already in my choice of friends and (apparently) doctors. My personal feeling is that fundamentalists should not be psychologists or psychiatrists. That's putting crazy people in charge of the loony-bin. I'm beginning to think they shouldn't be doctors, nurses or pharmacists, either, if it affects their job performance.

Is this discrimination? Do these people have a choice in what they believe? Up to a point, they don't. They believe according to what they've been taught, although some of them are willfully ignorant and believe no matter what.

Can a fundamentalist function well in certain jobs that require objectivity and critical thinking skills? Would you trust one to counsel a family member on emotional issues? I sure as hell wouldn't!

Because I have a friend who is a psychologist, I know more than I probably should about local health care practitioners, especially those involved in mental health. The psychiatrist in charge of in-patient care is a fundamentalist. I've heard stories from three different sources that she inappropriately brings her religion into the equation. She told one patient to "go home and pray." In my opinion this woman should be fired, but what are the chances of that happening in this fundamentalist county? Very, very slim.

Thoughts?

This is interesting.

I myself have a fundie, creationist doctor (I'm not 100% certain as to whether he's Young Earth or not, but I think it's more likely that he is). This guy does give me medical advice, gives me monthly allergy shots, prescribes medication, etc. He knows I'm an atheist (again, I'm more or less out of the closet now, only certain family members still think I'm christian). I know he has, in the past, when he couldn't give any advice, told people to pray. However, with me (when I was christian) I've never had him tell me to pray without giving me something else as well. In other words, prayer was always a supplement for the drugs.

One thing about fundies is that they believe in "micro-evolution" and thus they would know about bacteria evolving. It's a nice little mental trick to allow learned people to believe in evolution while not believing in it.

I do think it would be discriminatory to say "no fundamentalist doctors, period". But some belief systems should bar people from certain jobs. I would think Reagan's infamous Minister of Interior who said there was no need for environmental legislation because Jesus was coming back would be a grand example. White Nationalists should be barred from jobs in the immigration department, since most are against immigration of non-whites. Fundies shouldn't teach evolution, ever. But these people who should be barred from some jobs due to their beliefs are probably few and far between.

I mostly agree with you.

BenfromCanada wrote:
I'd say that shrink SHOULD be fired, but only if prayer was the ONLY thing she prescribed. Did she say "take these pills, change your diet and pray" or "just pray"?

I don't agree with you here only because I know exactly what happened with this fundy psychiatrist (don't want to go into details). She did prescribe drugs, but dragging her religion into the equation made the patient(s) worse. She needs to have her ass fired, but that will never happen. Fortunately, she's getting up in years and will soon be replaced. Unfortunately, the odds are good she will be replaced by another fundy.

 

[MOD EDIT - changed "Nero" to "BenfromCanada" in quote] 

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Posted on: September 27, 2007 - 3:37pm #6
Iruka Naminori
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Well, it's looking more and

Well, it's looking more and more like I will need surgery at the hands of local doctors.  Yahweh?  Jesus?  Allah? Zeus?  Thoth?  FSM?  Somebody help!

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Posted on: September 27, 2007 - 4:18pm #7
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Iruka Naminori wrote:

Iruka Naminori wrote:

BenfromCanada wrote:
I'd say that shrink SHOULD be fired, but only if prayer was the ONLY thing she prescribed. Did she say "take these pills, change your diet and pray" or "just pray"?

I don't agree with you here only because I know exactly what happened with this fundy psychiatrist (don't want to go into details). She did prescribe drugs, but dragging her religion into the equation made the patient(s) worse. She needs to have her ass fired, but that will never happen. Fortunately, she's getting up in years and will soon be replaced. Unfortunately, the odds are good she will be replaced by another fundy.

Holy crap. What thread did I say that in? LOL!

 

 

[MOD EDIT - changed "Nero" to "BenfromCanada" in quote]

 

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Posted on: September 27, 2007 - 5:50pm #8
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Iruka Naminori wrote: I

Iruka Naminori wrote:

I don't agree with you here only because I know exactly what happened with this fundy psychiatrist (don't want to go into details). She did prescribe drugs, but dragging her religion into the equation made the patient(s) worse. She needs to have her ass fired, but that will never happen. Fortunately, she's getting up in years and will soon be replaced. Unfortunately, the odds are good she will be replaced by another fundy.

How did the patient(s) get worse? If you're allowed to divulge, that is. I can't see any reason that suggesting supplementary prayer would harm.

Oh, and I said that, not Nero.

 

Nero wrote:

Holy crap. What thread did I say that in? LOL!

This thread. Only you were called "BenfromCanada" when you said it, and you used my IP address. You're sneaky!

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Posted on: September 27, 2007 - 6:18pm #9
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Nero wrote: Iruka Naminori

Nero wrote:
Iruka Naminori wrote:

Nero wrote:
I'd say that shrink SHOULD be fired, but only if prayer was the ONLY thing she prescribed. Did she say "take these pills, change your diet and pray" or "just pray"? 

I don't agree with you here only because I know exactly what happened with this fundy psychiatrist (don't want to go into details).  She did prescribe drugs, but dragging her religion into the equation made the patient(s) worse.  She needs to have her ass fired, but that will never happen.  Fortunately, she's getting up in years and will soon be replaced.  Unfortunately, the odds are good she will be replaced by another fundy.

Holy crap.  What thread did I say that in?  LOL!

I'm sorry.  It must be the fever. Sad

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Posted on: September 27, 2007 - 6:26pm #10
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BenfromCanada wrote: Iruka

BenfromCanada wrote:
Iruka Naminori wrote:

I don't agree with you here only because I know exactly what happened with this fundy psychiatrist (don't want to go into details). She did prescribe drugs, but dragging her religion into the equation made the patient(s) worse. She needs to have her ass fired, but that will never happen. Fortunately, she's getting up in years and will soon be replaced. Unfortunately, the odds are good she will be replaced by another fundy.

How did the patient(s) get worse? If you're allowed to divulge, that is. I can't see any reason that suggesting supplementary prayer would harm.

Oh, and I said that, not Nero.

Yeah, I figured that out.  It must be the fever.

It wasn't "supplementary prayer" that caused harm.  It was something else.  I don't feel comfortable divulging too much information in this case, partially because some of it is hearsay and partially because of where I got the information: two different psychologists and a patient.

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Posted on: September 27, 2007 - 6:45pm #11
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At last count, in the past

At last count, in the past four years I have spent two days in the hospital for each day I have spent out - and the majority of those days out were spent on IV meds etc.

I don't have experience with YEC but I have had more problems in a Catholic hospital than you want to know about.  The doctors did make decisions based on their religion and imposed them on me.  If you're curious see this (one example):

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/sapient/philosophy_and_psychology_with_chaoslord_and_todangst/10223?page=2

I'm not big into re-typing... Anyway, on the plus side, Catholic hospitals write off a ton.  When you have extensive problems this can make the difference in having a roof over your head vs. living in a cardboard box.  However, there's the whole question of your level of care.  

I would recommend this:

Research your problem.  Be prepared when you speak to him.  Don't say yes to a surgery until after you look it up and can confirm if it is generally accepted practice.  Ask him about things like success rate.  If he hasn't been sued (a lot) and he's recommending a procedure that is the norm chances are he's confident and religion will play a small role.  However, if he tries to candling your ear, get the hell out of there.  


Posted on: September 27, 2007 - 8:04pm #12
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BenfromCanada wrote: Iruka

BenfromCanada wrote:
Iruka Naminori wrote:

I don't agree with you here only because I know exactly what happened with this fundy psychiatrist (don't want to go into details). She did prescribe drugs, but dragging her religion into the equation made the patient(s) worse. She needs to have her ass fired, but that will never happen. Fortunately, she's getting up in years and will soon be replaced. Unfortunately, the odds are good she will be replaced by another fundy.

How did the patient(s) get worse? If you're allowed to divulge, that is. I can't see any reason that suggesting supplementary prayer would harm.

Oh, and I said that, not Nero.

 

Nero wrote:

Holy crap. What thread did I say that in? LOL!

This thread. Only you were called "BenfromCanada" when you said it, and you used my IP address. You're sneaky!

WHEW!  I thought I had lost my mind, or what is left of it!  As for crazy computer stuff, I am a delightful anachronism.

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Posted on: September 29, 2007 - 5:37am #13
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It wouldn't bother me

I don`t really talk religion with my doctor, but luckily hes an atheist as well. I don`t see why it should be a problem with yours as long as you or he don`t bring up religion. I don't think doctors should make decisions based on their beliefs, like not giving birth control to unmarried women.

On the other hand, a psychologist is someone i would only visit if I knew he wasn`t a theist of some sort because I don't want him/her to answer questions with "just read your bible." Smiling

 

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Posted on: October 5, 2007 - 3:51am #14
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shelleymtjoy wrote: At

shelleymtjoy wrote:

At last count, in the past four years I have spent two days in the hospital for each day I have spent out - and the majority of those days out were spent on IV meds etc.

I don't have experience with YEC but I have had more problems in a Catholic hospital than you want to know about.  The doctors did make decisions based on their religion and imposed them on me.  If you're curious see this (one example):

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/sapient/philosophy_and_psychology_with_chaoslord_and_todangst/10223?page=2

I'm not big into re-typing... Anyway, on the plus side, Catholic hospitals write off a ton.  When you have extensive problems this can make the difference in having a roof over your head vs. living in a cardboard box.  However, there's the whole question of your level of care.

Yes, I read that story awhile back.  I don't blame you for not wanting to re-type OR cut and paste.  What a nightmare!  

 

shelleymtjoy wrote:
 

I would recommend this:

Research your problem.  Be prepared when you speak to him.  Don't say yes to a surgery until after you look it up and can confirm if it is generally accepted practice.  Ask him about things like success rate.  If he hasn't been sued (a lot) and he's recommending a procedure that is the norm chances are he's confident and religion will play a small role.  However, if he tries to candling your ear, get the hell out of there.  

Hmmm...how do you find out if the doctor has been sued?  Just the fact that he's up here in the boonies makes me a little nervous.

I must admit to ever-growing concerns about the competency of professionals who ascribe to irrational belief systems.  Usually I haven't had to dig too far to discover that the irrationality was at least a partial cause of some fuck-up perpetrated by a so-called "professional." 

On a positive note, I am SO GLAD that atheists are really starting to speak out in this country. Come out of the closet.  Do so early and often! Eye-wink  The weather is turbulent with a forecast of thunder showers, but hey, at least you aren't lying to yourself or your family, eh?

I've been out of the closet for about six years now.  I HOPE that my doing so was helpful to someone because it hasn't been easy. Smiling  I'm also hoping it's a bit easier on the folks who do it now.

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