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Atrocities in the old testament

Posted on: April 27, 2007 - 4:42am

rm991

Posts: 9

Joined: 2007-04-27

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Atrocities in the old testament

I heard your debate with Ergun Caner. It was interesting to see how you cornered him on a few occasions. Specially when confronted with the problem of evil and when trying to defend the doctrine of original sin.

I noticed that when he was excusing the atrocities in the old testament you countered by pointing out that Jesus said that he did not come to abolish the law. This is a valid point but I think it should be added that even if that was so the god of the bible since the time of Moses, according to Christians, commanded that the Israelites live by the law. This means that probably millions of people were stoned to death, sold into slavery, raped, and what not because of the commandments of the god of love Christians defend. Even if Jesus abolished the old law the undeniable fact still remains that millions of people were killed and oppressed by the commandments of the god of the bible. I would ask Christians if it was the moral thing to do back then even if it is not now. I think this would add one more nail to their coffin. One that they would not be able to deny by any means. They might argue their way out of Jesus' words about abolishing the law with sophistry but the millions of victims of the Yahweh religion are undeniable.

In any case, I think Dr. Caner made a good presentation. The best a Christian could make. I was also floored, like Sapient said, by this guy. Coming from Jerry Falwell land I never thought he would be so open and reasonable. He was not able to defend the more important criticism of the bible, but still his attitude of inviting doubt and dialog was very commendable.

It was a very good show.

Thanks for all you guys do for atheism.

rm991

Posted on: April 28, 2007 - 2:55am #1

Susan

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Welcome rm991! When you

Welcome rm991!

When you have a few minutes, we'd love it if you'd hop over to General Conversation, Introductions, and Humor and introduce yourself.

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Posted on: April 28, 2007 - 3:05am #2

todangst

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Joined: 2006-03-10

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rm991 wrote: I heard your

rm991 wrote:

I heard your debate with Ergun Caner. It was interesting to see how you cornered him on a few occasions. Specially when confronted with the problem of evil and when trying to defend the doctrine of original sin.

Those were my suggested questions, although I think Kelly was already thinking along the same lines.

Quote:

I noticed that when he was excusing the atrocities in the old testament you countered by pointing out that Jesus said that he did not come to abolish the law. This is a valid point but I think it should be added that even if that was so the god of the bible since the time of Moses, according to Christians, commanded that the Israelites live by the law. This means that probably millions of people were stoned to death, sold into slavery, raped, and what not because of the commandments of the god of love Christians defend. Even if Jesus abolished the old law the undeniable fact still remains that millions of people were killed and oppressed by the commandments of the god of the bible.

Well said. In addition, had he abolished the law it would be a clear concession of flaws in the law.

Quote:

I would ask Christians if it was the moral thing to do back then even if it is not now.

Some argue that it was. But then, they need to be asked: "why would a god who is perfectly responsible for his own creation (as per both Aquinas and Luther) create a people fit for such a law in the first place?

Quote:

I think this would add one more nail to their coffin. One that they would not be able to deny by any means. They might argue their way out of Jesus' words about abolishing the law with sophistry but the millions of victims of the Yahweh religion are undeniable. In any case, I think Dr. Caner made a good presentation. The best a Christian could make. I was also floored, like Sapient said, by this guy. Coming from Jerry Falwell land I never thought he would be so open and reasonable. He was not able to defend the more important criticism of the bible, but still his attitude of inviting doubt and dialog was very commendable. It was a very good show. Thanks for all you guys do for atheism. rm991

A very nice review, thanks.

"Hitler burned people like Anne Frank, for that we call him evil.
"God" burns Anne Frank eternally. For that, theists call him 'good.'