RRS Show was utter Disappointment
Offline I expected a hard argument.
For 1, noone took me seriously except Type_R, and for that, thank you Type_R. We spent a long time trying to reach somewhere, and when we did (how much mass do these "particles" have according to the string theory) I was denied any furthur discussion.
Instead, the general banter was directed towards questions like
"Does your God reproduce?"
"Does your God need food?"
"Does your God breath?"
"Would you have sex with your God?"
All these questions were asked of me, as I was trying to debate something VERY rational--How much mass does the universe contain.
I wished to come to such a discussion, with Science in the forefront, for science is only such of which we can base logical discussion on, correct?
But instead of getting logical discourse back(Type_R, you are the only sole exception, I was pleased with your participation and patience with me) I received the above questions, as if to change the subject or to make me look like a fool.
Lets see, I was kicked out(tyranically may I add) out of the chat room for expressing my right to freedom of speech by stating "Fuck You". I will not state why I expressed my feelings, yet the actions discoursed after such menacing words showed true character and tolerance from such people with the power to do what they please.
I ESPECIALLY liked how NOONE with a webcam dared to speak anything, until Sapient started going on about how I am nothing and my views are irrational because I make up my own defintions(noone made any definitions, I was merely trying to make sure I was on the same page with you people on such words)
The fact is, the ONLY rational being who showed up there, and at least showed his face, was Type_R. The rest of you were cowards. I'm sorry, but maybe I am making up a definition now, for what most of you were came to light in the midst of barely heavy scientific and philosophical discussion.
I DESIRE the need to debate God with any of you. Especially Sapient. If someone has a teamspeak server, then by all means lets have a REAL debate, a REAL discussion. You all had nothing more to say then,
"lolzers who believes in the buybull here?"
The fact is not many of you have REAL arguments over the existance of GOD.
Basically arguments made by members of this board has been
1.) The Bible is wrong
2.) Jesus never lived, and if he did, it was all a conspiracy about exactly what he did
3.) God is unprovable
4.) Believing in God is irrational and illogic.
5.) If you believe in God, then you are irrational and illogical(therefor making you unworthy of being taken seriously)
Is there some I've missed out on? Please let me know, so I can chalk up on my defenses, and then we can have a REAL debate. That chat room was nothing more then a breeding ground for NONSENSE. Yes, just as much a Theists may be nonsense, most of you were INANE. The things you said were so skewed, and so child-like, it surprised me so much that I even bothered to log back in(after being kicked) let alone had I even bothered to stay after 5 minutes of such RUBBISH. I'm not sitting here, now, wasting my time over this, just to piss you guys off. Such measures would be stupid, and would show my true character. I reveal this simply so some of you can get an idea of how you looked from an unbiased outside point of view.
But for fucks sake..seriously.. Do any of you realize how old you guys seemed? Type_R looked like a professor in the midst of little children. I'm sorry, I know some of you had intelligence, and this is not directed towards you. However, the people that I am talking of, they know who they are. Let me just state this for those people.. The likes of the discussion of God is not nearly within your grasps.
How about this. Form your OWN opinion and your OWN argument on why God doesn't exist, then come speak to me ONE ON ONE. Leave your gang mentality, and childish arguments("who believes in the buybull lol"
at the door. I welcome anyone actually. I want to have LOGICAL arguments, rooted in character with intelligent human beings. If you can do those things, and you fit such a description, then please, lets set something up, because I know those people are out there.
1 in 5 Americans believe we live in a Geocentric solar system. Who do you blame for that? God? I blame god.
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Considering I have no idea who you are or who Type_R is, it may be a bit glib to state you've conversed with the RRS or that nobody was willing to take you seriously.
I don't see how such questions would be out of bounds, but there are better queiries to pose.
How does the mass of the universe pertain in any way to the existence of a deity that created it?
Well, I won't wiegh in as I'm not privy to the pertinent conversations, but I must say this is a rather obtuse topic.
Seems to me like you were the bad actor here. "Fuck You" is code for "I'm taking my ball and going home". Chat certainly isn't the place to discuss astrophysics at anyrate. We have forums for that.
And well, the list of complainst goes on. Look, I'm a core member of the sqaud, I'm one of the shlubs you hear yammer on in most of our shows.
If you want to talk science, I'm here for you. Post in the science forum, PM me, hell, if you have an interesting topic I'll invite you on to the show.
Or, you can take a bad impromtu experience in chat as your "victory" and go home.
If you want to go down the rabbit hole, we can.
I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. - Richard Dawkins
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server.
Like I stated Yellow, I tryed to go deep down the rabbit hole that night, and people backed out. I'm not "going home" in victory, I'm only left with the fact that most of those people in that chat room, had no sense of real debatable foundation over something so broad as "God."
"Fuck You" was code for "Hey, you don't even KNOW what I believe in, so how can you make assumptions about my faith or scientific convictions" So yes, my fuck you was slightly out of bad character, but cry me a fucking river, it's not like I made a pissy fit out of it.
You're right Yellow, I didn't talk to anyone from the RRS. The only person I think that was apart of the RRS was Sapient, and he said nothing to me. So you're right, I can't sit here and say I talked to everyone, and wasn't taken seriously, I tryed to talk to the people in the chat room, and their inane arguements proved enough that they didn't take me seriously.
Those questions are not out of bounds by no means, but yes, there are a lot better questions to pose. It shows the lack of seriousness, in which case, I can walk away in victory, because nobody posed a paradigm which proved the inexistence of a God.
Yellow, I know there are plenty of intelligent people on these boards. Unfortunately not many of them showed up at that show. In all honesty, I would be extremely down for a conversation(teamspeak? I don't have a web cam..) on plenty of matters of topics, namely physics. As for the RRS chat room... Unless a couple nights of go was an exception, I can't help but have the first impression that such a chat room is only a breeding ground for teenage semantics with only a hint of intelligent debatable process behind it. Sorry that I feel this way, but I can only go off of what I observed.
1 in 5 Americans believe we live in a Geocentric solar system. Who do you blame for that? God? I blame god.
Although debates can occur in our chatroom, the purpose of the chatroom is to organize RRS affairs, disseminate information pertaining to atheists, and deal with various other issues that have nothing to do with debate.
The message board is here to debate, the chatroom is like the atheists bedroom. Maybe you shouldn't have assumed otherwise. If you want to get to the heart of an issue, you don't do it in a chatroom where 20 conversations are happening at once and yours is 15th in line. You can't come into someones bedroom while they're making out with their wife and whine that they were short with you or made inane arguments.
And the chatroom isn't a show. If you were during a recording session all members of the squad would've been there, and we would've been too busy to talk to you. If you were there during a show re-airing then it would've been Friday night and the topics would've been those discussed during that show.
You have 119 posts on this board, are you judging the sum of your experiences here on a visit into our bedroom? Or is the actual place we've set up for debate (the message board) the problem as well?
That's about what it's set up for. Don't go to the chatroom anymore. I mean that, don't come. Stay on the board.
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Hello Ripple,
Not an unreasonable expectation, however experience shows that when debating atheists on such issues, you expected too much.
The Red Herring is a common logical fallacy employed by atheists to avoid discussing anything difficult or thought provoking. The idea here is to keep you on the defensive, so the atheist doesn't have to answer any hard question themselves, and when you refuse to answer their own inane questions, they resort to ridicule. It's a pretty standard MO for atheists, so I wouldn't take it personally.
I see you met the atheist hypocrisy first hand. Atheists love to talk about "freedom of thought" an "expression", but they don't practice what they preach. They don't like opinions that differ from theirs, which is why talking to one atheist is like talking to every other atheist. Now, the atheists are free to say "Fuck You" to you, because you have a god-belief, and that makes you irrational, therefore they are superior to you in every way. That doesn't make sense, you say? Well, despite the claim to be "rational responders", atheists are nothing of the sort.
First, the people with webcams are Sapient's personal groupies, and will happily eat the corn out of his shit at his bidding--don't expect any independent thought there. Second, Sapient and his ilk will make any absurd claim to avoid rational discussion; saying you are "nothing", or that your views are "irrational because you make up your own definitions" are simply ways of evading the discussion. If you listen to Sapient, you realize quickly that he doesn't know very much about anything, which is why his "debates" always degrade into an angry tirade of invectives and personal insults against his opponent, until that opponent simply gives up in frustration. At which point, Sapient declares "victory", and his mindless thrall of lackeys will all sing the praises of Sapient with insipid comments of how he "pwned".
You've hit the nail right on the head, brother--atheists do not have a real argument against the existence of God, but a long series of logical fallacies that usually end up being nothing more than an argument from incredulity--they don't believe it, so it must not be true. What they have are statements, not arguments, and often without evidentiary support, and what evidence that is presented is usually superficial, incomplete or simply dishonest. For example, the claim that "the Bible is wrong" is usually predicated on irrelevancies like a cud-chewing rabbit or insects with four legs. It is my experience that atheists take the Bible more literally than the most literal-minded Christian fundamentalists--they do this because they have to--its the only way they can argue that the Bible is false.
If they were truly rational, they would recognize that the Bible, like every other work of literature, employs metaphor, play-on-words and other poetic devices to convey its message, and is not always meant to be taken at its literal face; they would recognize that the Biblical texts were not written in english, and many things do not properly translate from Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic; they would realize that until the invention of movable type, each Bible had to be meticulously hand-copied, and many copyist errors have crept into the text over the centuries. But this is all too complicated and dangerous for the atheist; taking such facts into consideration means taking the risk of having to abandon their Straw Man arguments against Christianity, and they're not going to do that. It's far easier to simply take the Bible at its literal face, and ridicule it--no rational thought required.
I don't know. I think you'll be waiting a long time, friend. I don't think that atheists--especially the ones who frequent this site--want to discuss the issue rationally, as adults--primarily because most of them aren't adults. If I had to guess based on the "Blasphemy Challenge" videos and the atrocious grammar and blatant illiteracy, I'd say that the average age of the member here is in his/her teens to early 20's with a High School education and not much else. If you're looking for intelligent, rational debate about God and religion, I'd start looking elsewhere.
Michael
BANNED FOR: DISHONESTY
REPEATED OFFENDER
THIS THREAD FOR DETAILS:
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/rook_hawkins/biblical_errancy/4335
OKAY Sapient I won't go to your chatroom, but WHEN you DO have a REAL discussion, then PLEASE let me know so I can be there.
I think the boards are great, once the idiots are easily recognized by their ability to engage in intelect rather then rudementery "rational and logical" rubbish.
Aye Macgawd, I've noticed a lot of hypocrisy of some of the members on these boards(granted a lot of them have gained my permanent respect by showing rational thought, not claiming rational thought.)
The Bible should really have no part in the discussion over the existence of God. The fact is, these atheists should rather call themselves Anti-Abrahamics. Nearly all of discussion is towards Yahweh. I believe some of the fellas are missing the point that "God" is completely beyond any defintion we as mortal beings could give it. All theists have their "ideas" about the workings of God, because that's all we can have; an idea. Unfortunately, the humility of many ideas of God is truly rooted in human arrogance. Such is, as well, the humility of atheists--absolutely none towards the possibilities. It bothers me so much to think of how many people here just know that there is no God, just as much as any Millerite knew Jesus' Second Coming was in 1844. Do any of you guys really KNOW much of anything other then science???
It's not hard to see that several of the people on these boards became atheists and are so hardcore about it, because their minds are just as weak, if not as weak as faith-without-thinking theists. These people were obviously swayed of their opinion so easily, because their opinions are never their owns. Someone else simply tells them how to think and express the "arguments" In that, several of the members here are no different then fundamentalists.
And where has science disproved the "Idea of a God"? I've been looking for this from you guys for a long time now. But let me guess, points 3, 4, and 5 of above list are going to be the forefront of such a matter.
Eat the corn out of his shit.. it truly invoked a fit a laughter. And you're right, I haven't got much of anything out of Sapient, sadly. I expected much more from someone who has such a following. It's truly sad...unless Sapient is just waiting... The unleashing of the Secret Weapon of Evidence and Real Knowledgeable Discourse?? I can't wait. Really.
1 in 5 Americans believe we live in a Geocentric solar system. Who do you blame for that? God? I blame god.
Sapient is correct in saying that the chatroom isn't a place where a deep, philosophical discussion is going to take place. Just when someone is making a point, someone else is likely to post "How do I stop the chimes every time someone enters the chatroom?" followed by "Please make your letters a different color. I can't read them." There can be literally 15 or 20 conversations taking place simultaneously.
The forums are the place for debate and discussion and you are welcome to post your questions there. That way you will have everyone's attention for your questions and comments.
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server.
Yeah, then how come noone was telling me to shut up becaue it wasn't the place. I could see all the webcam feeds, and all of the people were fixated on the chat room screen. Not talking about something else. Obviously they were reading something, whilst not responding with anything worthwhile(or anything at all) MySpace guys? Okay Susan, then explain if it's NOT a place of debate, then why were many of the chat room members exclaiming--
"I can't wait for the buybull fans to show up so we can pwn them."
Pwn them with what? Sticks and stones? No. Words. What does a debate entail? A battle of words. Don't give me this bullshit about what that chatroom was for, because I was there, and the intentions of the people were self-evident. To argue Christians. Take it as you will, but who is really making up definitions now?
1 in 5 Americans believe we live in a Geocentric solar system. Who do you blame for that? God? I blame god.
Look, like I said, I don't know what you discussed in chat. You may very well have engaged a person who was formally debating you. That's fine. That's the perogative of the parties involved.
I tend to not debate such matters seriously in chat, for reasons that have been pointed out. I simply don't think such a format can do the subjects justice. In chat you argure in soundbytes. We can actually hash things out in the forum.
I've tried to argue such topics in chat plenty of times, and I always find the format lacking. It precludes being able to get into minutia, data, evidence. Chat isn't the sort of place where I can make points on cosmology or biology and technicle things they involve. You cannot hash out things like creationism and evolution without that level of detail. Chat isn't a place where we can hash out the entymology of Biblical verses.
Chat is for, well, chat. It's for banter and shooting the shit.
We provide a forum, here, in our forums, for deeper types of discussion. Take advantage of it.
I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. - Richard Dawkins
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server.
Ripple... It seems to me that you have established your grievances pretty well to this point and that the discussion protocol is well understood by all concerned. Perhaps now would be the time to actually start formulating your argument? From your language, I assume you want to take a/the affirmative burden. Cheers!
Hold on a sec... did I hear right?
You can get kicked out of the chat room for saying "fuck you"?
RRS takes people seriously?