Another pathetic, delusional individual. Where are the peer reviewed studies of these medical miracles? Seriously, were there tombs involved, with angels coming down and pushing away the stone slabs, announcing to you the dead had been raised? Was there a guy standing there saying, "Person, stand! You are not dead!" Stop trying to live in a fictional universe. The Gospel accounts are edifying fictions - not realities. People do not raise from the dead, and the only way the blind see and the deaf hear are with science and technology, created by man not Gods. You are clearly lying about these incidents, and you are using the Gospel narratives as a foundation for these lies. You are no different than the early Christians who did the same thing - except they at least understood the Gospels as fictions. So in that regard, they were more honest with their legendary embellishments than you are. Stop living in a fantasy world.

Your post is so completely and utterly foolish that you should be grateful that stupidity is not a capital offense.

You are truly a waste of human flesh, a useless breeder who will pass on the disease of religion to the next generation of mindless god-whores.

You existence contains nothing of value. You are simply a puppet of religion. Only your eventual death could possibly count as a positive contribution to humanity.

Thankfully the inexorable passage of time combined with the aging process will eventually erase you from history

....and as is normal among the never-ending birth of new generations, even the memory of your former existence will eventually be forgotten ( humiliating isn't it ? )

Keep believing that God will raise you from the dead if it comforts you but unfortunately Mother Nature isn't religious and when she snuffs you out, you don't get a second chance.

Deal with it.

 

 

"I like Kirk Cameron, but I think there are more Christian leaders out there that would have a better
argument than what was presented to you in that debate you had with Kirk
Cameron. I don't enjoy the fact that you make a challenge blaspheming the
Holy Spirit, but you got some national attention and preachers are now
using what your group is doing and we are seeing hundreds and thousands of
teens coming to Christ due to the reality of what your group is ultimatley
trying to do, and that is to deny the God of this universe, in which our
Bible tells us groups would try to do in the last days. So your groups are
confirming the word of God without you even trying to. "

 

I find it rather amusing when Christians talk about the "end of days". And how the bible through lose translations prophesizes when the rapture will happen. Any one can take a book that has been translated and modified for the last 2000 years and flip verses until they come up with something that "god" predicted. For example check out this site http://bibleprobe.com/smokeface.htm. It is merely a glorified religious form of numerology. If you look hard enough and warp what you find you can get what ever answer you were looking for. I don’t think the Christians get that for the last 2000 years the Christian population has believed that it will happen in there life times. WWI produced the same out cry that you hear now from evangelicals. It has become "The Greatest Story Ever Told"

Does this guy have death certificates for the dead people certified by a doctor, with another doctor certifying that the person was brought back to life by reading hocus pocus religious incantations over the corpse? Does he have documented proof that a blind or deaf person who had no eyes meaning they were missing and they suddenly grew eyes in the presence of medical doctors after a similar hocus pocus religious spell, I mean prayer session? Exactly what documented proof by outside scientists and doctors were used? None no doubt. No indepedent veriafiable documented proof = bullshit not miracle.

On two seperate occassions, I was 'witness' to a 13-storey monster reaching through my bedroom window - intent on seizing me from my bed. Both occasions were, from my perspective, incredibly tangible and 'real'.

In neither case was there an actual monster present, or any actual danger to my person at all.

Tying a personal experience to a paranormal claim in order to enforce the idea that it 'actually happened' is dishonest, both to yourself and everyone you're trying to convince. Get objective - remove yourself from the situation, and start doing some serious thinking:

 - Was there another, more likely/rational explanation? (See 'Occam's Razor')

 - Is there evidence that what you saw is actually what happened? If there is, how concrete is that evidence?

 - Can anyone else corroborate your claim without your own insight?

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt (which is being far too generous) and assume you aren't passing along an outright lie. That being the case, I want you to very carefully re-examine your experiences with the afore-mentioned criteria. 

Not for every fleck of gold in Fort Knox.

I know exactly what kind of people those ladies and gentlemen are, and I have no room in my life for them. They have stepped beyond ignorance or even willfull ignorance; they actively advocate for the propagation of ignorance.

A few such individuals, once upon time, took it upon themselves to senselessly try and alienate and destroy one of my most enjoyed activities. They are among the world's least worthwhile people, and deserve not a second of time from anyone.

Your credibility just became so much thinner. Where is the evidence that teens have been actually drawn toward Christianity as a result of the RRS's work? I could see some dishonest groups twisting the message of the RRS in order to cast them in the light of the violent aggressor, but that even in that case the causal agent isn't the promotion of atheism - it's the manipulation and lies or religious groups.

Aside from that, I'm very curious: do you have statistics that support your claim? Or, at the very least, could you name your city and church so that we could conduct research to see for ourselves?

I hardly read that as a genuine 'Thank you'.

In the meantime, the agenda here is not strictly to maim your beliefs. It is to demonstrate the folly of unsupported claims and blind acceptance of 'facts' for which you've been provided no evidence. It is also to demonstrate the strength and appearance of genuine science, so that people understand both why it is important and how to distinguish it from psuedo-science.

 

Regards,

Kevin R Brown

Remember we all beleive something. i just know there is more.

Well he might have actually seen what he believed to be people raised from the dead and blinded eyes open.  Of course, if he had been paying attention, he might have noticed that he was being conned by  bunch of people in on the con.  For example, look at the large number of people that were convinced that Peter Popoff "healed" people via miraculous intervention.  It would not surprise me if people that "witnessed" those "miracles" would be willing to write something like the OP. 

It's sad, but there are plenty of people that simply take things at face value and don't question the things being put forth in front of them.  So while it is possible that he's just lying, it's also possible that he "witnessed" his purported miracles.  Unfortunately, I can't give you proper odds on which one is more likely, so feel free to assign whatever odds you want.

Again, why do we have to prove the bible wrong? What can you provide to prove the bible correct other than the same apologetics mentioned through out the site? You have made the same fundamental mistake most theists do, by placing the burden of proof on the skeptic. I do not fear your god, because there is no reason to believe it exists. However, if god is the source of all knowledge then ask it a few questions for me please. I asked some questions similiar to this when I was a christian, but it never got back to me.

If the bible is indeed true, can you offer us a timeline of events? When was the everything created? When was the "flood"? Who was the pharoah in the exodus? Why do christians still believe that eve was the first woman created by god? Why does the concept of heaven and hell evolve as the story progresses? Many claim the bible to be a book of answers, yet I would imagine most of us see it rather as a book of questions?

You know what?  You're probably right, and I was giving the guy more credit than was deserved.  It's in my nature to give people the benefit of the doubt, but you're probably right in this instance.

If you can prove the Bible wrong, please show me where there is a mistake

Well the first mistake is withing the first chapter of the very first book of your acclaimed book of knowledge and truth. If after reading and re-reading you still dont see it, feel free to message me and i'll enlighten you. It's all downhill with mistakes after chapter one. And you can not disprove christianity...it's something that you follow and believe in. It's not something that can be tested.  Just a mental note that perhaps you should be more careful with your wording. No one is going to take you seriously in your fight for Jesus if you can't debate accurately.

I wonder where is the video of this alleged "raising of the dead"?

Christians could be seen as an analogy to those bitten in the movie series Resident Evil. After they have been infected they simply have no other purpose but to destroy the lives of others. Those infected walk blindly through life spreading tripe based on ancient mythology and no longer have a mind capable of rational thought. They of course don't see it that way as they are blinded by the disease of the invisible mythical sky monster.

I once travelled with an Evangelist , once while at a crusade  a friend of his friend was horribly hurt in an accident.

Word was he went DOA as they arrived. We were at the hospital a few moments after they arrived. the evangelist was holding hands in a prayer circle for about an hour.. the nurse finally came out and reported they had stabilized him.

In the eyes of the doctor, he was saved by the fast actions of the staff and a defib machine.

When we got back to the home base church. I sat there and listened to the preacher tell them how he raised the dead in jesus's name.

From what I witnessed... I give one point to the doctors for good work, and one point to the preacher for creating good spin...

 

Wait, you got "ticked off in school" because humanity's body of knowledge keeps improving?  I am not optimistic about the rest of this post...

I am sure they will.  I am also sure the basis for their derision will be based in new discoveries in falsifiable, repeatable experiments.

Travelling to learn about other cultures and histories is admirable; it gives you greater perspective on where you are and where you've been.

Yes.

No.

Try us.  Chalking up to magic that which you do not understand is silly.  Seek answers, and remember that the right answer is never "magic".

So are you a post-modernist, anti-judgement, "different-ways-of-knowing" proponent, or do you honestly think that magicians can control the weather, cause crop failures or sickness, change into animals and any other power ever credited to medicine men?

If it's the former, I urge you to get over the idea that all ideas are somehow equal, and that people with ideas are inherently deserving of respect.

I do not worship science, I recognize it for what it is: the best way of discovering reliable facts we have yet found.  Gathering facts gives us more power.

No; Galileo paid for pointing out that the emperor had no clothes.

It's not that I am averse to wonder and mystery; it's that answers have to make sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KNBwQLsp98

Writing God off is writing yourself off from the only One who ever truly loves the real you

Been reading some of your posts... you might be winning the argument intellectually  but most of you seem so discontented and unhappy...?

1Co 1:17  Christ did not send me to baptize. He sent me to tell the Good News, and to tell it without using the language of human wisdom, in order to make sure that Christ's death on the cross is not robbed of its power.
1Co 1:18  For the message about Christ's death on the cross is nonsense to those who are being lost; but for us who are being saved it is God's power.
1Co 1:19  The scripture says, "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and set aside the understanding of the scholars."
1Co 1:20  So then, where does that leave the wise? or the scholars? or the skillful debaters of this world? God has shown that this world's wisdom is foolishness!
1Co 1:21  For God in his wisdom made it impossible for people to know him by means of their own wisdom. Instead, by means of the so-called "foolish" message we preach, God decided to save those who believe.
1Co 1:22  Jews want miracles for proof, and Greeks look for wisdom.
1Co 1:23  As for us, we proclaim the crucified Christ, a message that is offensive to the Jews and nonsense to the Gentiles;
1Co 1:24  but for those whom God has called, both Jews and Gentiles, this message is Christ, who is the power of God and the wisdom of God.
1Co 1:25  For what seems to be God's foolishness is wiser than human wisdom, and what seems to be God's weakness is stronger than human strength.

I pray that you would all open your lives to Him - open your hearts... and enter into the amazing understanding of what it means to be truly loved and accepted for exactly who you are but not only that... It will be the start of the biggest adventure you could ever have imagined for your LIFE... He is amazing.

I fully expect you to rip what I've said to shreds... but that's ok... I've said it... I know it... People thought the earth was flat and just because you don't believe in gravity doesn't mean it will cease to exist or stop influencing your life for good. God is not intimidated by your arguments or your "rational reasonings"... He's not afraid of your questions... If you want to know something ask Him... Ask Him if He exists... Ask Him if He loves you... He will answer you as He answered me...

Love in its purest form gives of itself always and expects nothing in return... ( 1 Corinthians 13 v 4 - 8a) That's irrational. I want an all-consuming love... a love that comforts and heals and helps and seeks me out... I want to experience irrational love every day... and I do ... Keep your intellectualism... I choose Jesus.

There are those that would say the same about allah.Guess it would help if god made his existence a leeeetle more obvious.

Well Andrea,I like to think I'm pretty nice when answering theists.But really,why do you all assume we are unhappy? I assure you, I am rather content with life and enjoy it. I will also tell you I was a commited christian.I'm happier now.

 

Cool I've read the bible too you know.

Been there,done that, got the phsychological scarring,sub standard religious education, and hostility when I left?

He may not be scared but he sure doesn't seem to have any answers either.

Ok I asked him if he exists and if he loves me,right now, out loud.Didn't get anything.Sorry.

Ok,but be prepared for the fact that like all many irrational beliefs, my intellectualism will eventually remove your jesus,since he seems incapable of ansering any arguments.

 

{This is deludedgod. I am signing in anon because I have forgotten my password. This is because my computer has been set to auto-log in for at least a year, and as such I have not used the password for some time. However, I have recently reinstalled windows and as such lost that data. If an admin is reading this, please send my password to the above-given email address).

 

Now to business.

 

I am suprised that nobody pointed out the contradiction in this person;s post. He/she kept attempting to construe science as a dogmatic religion, yet simultaneously admitted that scientific understanding of the universe constantly updates. Hence, they have presented an internal contradiction. This is why it is so amusing that she/he mentioned Galileo. Galileo found convincing scientific evidence of heliocentricity, and was attacked for it by a religious body. In our day, many people assert that science has become like a religion. This is not correct. The reason that such people get away with these claims is the manner in which science is presented, as a set of disjointed facts in different branches. Yet, this is not the case. Science is a methodology and claims hence must be judged with respect to scientific methodologies. If I wish to evaluate the idea that an atom is a charged body with a partially positive center of concentrated charge and large mass, and the the much volumetrically larger outer layers constitute a haze of negative charges of infinitesemal masses, I must evaluate the Geiger-Marsden experiment and the associated experiments, and of course, all the experiments that followed it that tested other testable predictions of atomic theory. It is very interesting that this person linked science with inability to think outside the box, and simultaneously mentioned a man who "thought outside the box" by employing the scientific methodology. In my experience, most people who make this assertion have been presented science as a set of disjointed facts. In fact, science is a method of reasoning, and by absolutely all accounts, is with the exception of mathematics, the most impressive methodology in terms of accomplishments and understandings that has been devised in human history. This is what makes science so useful, that is, by definition, its knowledge claims are not measured by means of referrring to holy books and dogmas. Instead, its knowledge claims are based testable predictions about the empirical world which are gathered in an organized and logical manner. Most people are largely unfamiliar with scientific methodology even if they may have some appreciation of scientific facts because of the manner in which science is taught, and hence may make the claim you have. But this is not the case. As a method for gathering facts, we naturally expect that being that our theories are not dogmatic, that is, not absolute (here I mean dogmatic in the epistemological sense), we should expect they will be updated. So if many people are accusing science of being a religion, it is only because of its exalted place in society. Of course, this is a completely irrelevant factor of judgement when considering whether something is a religion because, the last time I checked, a religion constituted a set of rituals, beliefs and scriptures, usually organized around the notion of a supernatural being. Whether or not science has the same place in society as religion did 300 years ago is largely irrelevant, as this is not the manner in which we judge whether something is a religion. Science is a methodology which makes knowledge claims based on gathering data and considering the testable predictions made by hypotheses. The "change" that you purported to be "ticked off about" is therefore a hallmark of our inquiry. From an epistemological standpoint it also makes science largely unique (because in the context of science we speak of progress).

And to the poster to whom I am responding, you are correct. You are just stupid, because you've shot yourself in the foot by admitting that science changes and progresses and then attempt to construe it as a dogmatic religion. I might add that the "Western" is highly insulting as a large proportion of the scientific world are not Westerners, and non-Western civilizations have made serious and important contributions to scientific understanding and literature.

Can we at least agree that their either is or isn't a God, a Trinity or not?  That would make only one of us right, right?  If we agree on nothing else, can we at least agree on that?  Assuming we agree on that one issue, let's say you are right?  That there is no God!  Let's say everything can be explained by science, technologhy, medicine, evolution, etc. and nothing Divine exists.  So when I die, I go into the ground and decompose or am burned up, and the world goes on forever and forgets me.  Ok, pretty sad, but ok.  Than, what do I loose believing in God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit?  Nothing, right?  I know we agreed up front we would only agree on that one thing, but humor me.  I loose nothing. 

Now, let's say I'm right and God does exist and the Trinity is real and the only way to escape what has been foretold in the Bible, is salvation through Jesus Christ.  What happens to you when you die, then?  When the believers are finally proven correct?  When Christ comes and judges the living and YES the DEAD too?  I don't know.  I think I will keep on believing and trying to glorify Him.  See in this situation, you do have something to loose.  What is the slang for that again?  Skin in the game?  Maybe that is why you choose to not beleive.  You have fear, so it is easier to denounce Him and become a slave for sin.

Now many athiests will claim to live better and more moral lives than their Christian neighbors.  I can't speak for all Christians and I have definitely done my share of sinning.  However, I have a question:  Compared to Christian churches and associations or in the name of Jesus Christ, over the life span of Christianity or the world, you pick, how many hospitals, schools, community centers, planetariums, etc. have been commissioned, funded, founded, etc. in the name of atheism or by atheists?  And a follow up question:  Why do you suppose that is?    

  

Welcome to the forum.

Yes.

No, you already screwed up. Just because there is no God does not mean that everything can necessarily be explained by science. That would require for there to be nothing supernatural at all, so now, you are proposing the assumption that there is nothing supernatural.

No, you already screwed up again. Just because there is no God doesn't mean there is no afterlife.

If you didn't lose anything, then why is it sad? You lose the time that you wasted believing and acting on a false belief throughout your entire life. And that's assuming there is no afterlife, which I've already stated does not necessarily follow from there being no God.

No, I agreed that there either is or isn't a God. There is either the Christian God or there isn't a God is not a dichotomy.

Please search for "Pascal's Wager" on google to find thousands of simple independent refutations of your argument, which is called Pascal's Wager. Also see here, here, and here. Nobody is impressed.

If Christianity is true, then nonbelievers go to Christian hell, duh.

Ah, so this is the part where the nonbelievers are so scared by your argumentum ad consequentiam that they're just going to convert? Sorry, but your argument is not even valid. Try again.

We're scared of going to hell so we "choose" the path that takes us to hell? Yeah, I suppose that makes sense to a religious person.

Many atheists do live more moral lives than many Christians. Why wouldn't they? They're all just people. It's empirically supported, unless you simply redefine being moral as being Christian.  

By atheists? A lot. In the name of atheism? Almost none.

Because atheism is not a religion. Atheists don't advertise their dogma on everything they pursue because there is no dogma. There are many atheists working in hospitals, schools, community centers, etc. You just assume they don't exist because you don't know they're atheist when you see them. When you meet someone nice, you automatically assume they're Christian.   

What's the point you're trying to make? That doing good things for the PR is more moral than just doing good things because they're good?

Rob Parsley:

Fraud, charlotten, liar, cheat, snake, thief, conman, bonified turd burgeler and piece of shit, SCUM!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GmyCJebU7g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vZW1gX_9_U

 

Bishop T.D. Jakes:

Preacher pimp, business man, conman and turd burgular. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2Sm2fWMccA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkPbn2XXso8&playnext=1&list=PL693C7594B622C872&index=11

 

 It is unbelievable some grown adults such as yourself can't see the con taking place here, and can't sniff the BS on these men.  It is truly sad you are that loose in the head and gullible, amazing.  I don't know what to make of it to be honest, your simply not that bright.  My pitbull could smell the bullshit and sense the fraudulance in these men.  Relatively smart conman snakes like Rod Parsley love people like you, and such types will continue to prey on the weak minded for many years to come.   I think you should run head first into a brick wall, this might perhaps awaken you from your blind gullible slumber.  I don't even know what to say exactly to someone who can't see these frauds for who they are (especially Parsley, common man it's SO fucking obvious), I guess I'll end by saying here's a ball, go play with it quietly in the corner and please don't bother the adults.

 

Oh and if you would like to send me a large donation in return for my false promises, I will send you my 4 cd set called "learning how to not be a gullible idiot," which contains no real information atall, it's pretty much just me rambling, telling stories, and fucking around.  Please call 1-800-IMADUMBASS and a nice pretty sounding lady will take your donation.  If you do buy my cd set you will be rewarded 10 times over with whatever it is you are looking for, money, women, cars, yeah, whatever you want.  Again that's 1-800-IMADUMBASS Don't hesitate, PLEDGE NOW!!!