What gives you the right? - YOU RESPOND
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Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 9:45 PM
Subject: [General Question] haha
Eric sent a message using the contact form at
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Why do you think you have the right to tell people that they are irrational for having faith?
Why do you think you all have the right to try to end something that might be going well for young teens?
Why do you think you have the right to try to convince us that our hopes are false hopes?
Why do you think you have right to critisize and make fun of a religion just because you don't share the same beliefs as Christians?
It's wrong to try to crush some one's faith just because YOU think its false hope.
This whole thing is stupid, and you need to get a real life.
- Eric
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This is a response to every theist who ever pushed their beliefs on someone else.
Why do you think you have the right to tell people that they are irrational for NOT having faith?
Why do you think you all have the right to try to end something that might be going well for young teens? (works both ways deusch, how many of you have harassed me, telling me to stop thinking freely and dive into a Bible?)
Why do you think you have the right to try to convince us that our thoughts, logic, and reason are false?
Why do you think you have right to critisize and make fun of and chastise atheism just because we don't share the same beliefs as Christians?
It's wrong to try to crush some one's reason just because YOU think its false blasphemy.
We've been force fed the "fact" that we are hellbound blasphemers our entire lives, and attacked for our beliefs (or lack there of). Why is it so uncomfortable for so many Christians that we're the ones attacking them now?
Because they are irrational. What gives you the right to ask this question? Exactly.
Because it's not helping the majority. The majority of our species is hurt by religion. Just because a few people have a better time is no reason to propogate lies.
For the same reason you think you have the right to try to convince US that our beliefs are wrong. It's really too bad that at least 90% of theists are hypocrites who never look in the mirror.
I already answered this.
No, it's wrong to build someones faith in nothing. It's perfectly acceptable to break a mind disorder. Otherwise you should go to the nearest mental hospital and free all the patients. By your own words you think it would be right to do so.
It's not stupid. And I have a life. Do you? Probably not. You get on your knees for a god that doesn't exist and can't listen to you, let alone respond. What a waste of time. You could be out volunteering your time, or improving yourself, or helping others. How sad.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
We get the right from the First Amendment. You use the same right when you spread your beliefs.
If it's going well for them, why did they stop believing?
So you like hold on to false hope? We don't have the right to try to convince people of our opinions? I think the First Amendment covers this too.
Again, we get the right from the First Amendment.
It's wrong for you to maintain someone's faith based on false hopes.
Oh, what a burn. You've got a rapier's wit.
Pwnd! That's just classic!!!!
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EDIT: MrRage I didn't copy you a swear
Legally the first amendment, otherwise because faith is not based on anything but wishful thinking.
I think FreeThinkingTeens.com is going well, but I don't think that is what you meant. If you mean keeping them out of trouble any clubs could do that. If you mean giving them some sort of guide to life I must point out all those teens from that website seem to be doing ok. Also I must point out the worst offense I ever got in highschool was being late for class. Not exactly the kind of rebellious behavior some suggest a godless teen would exhibit. I am just guessing what you mean by "going well" so all that my be completely pointless.
Well some hope for the end of the world so I have a right to be concerned about that.
Again the first amendment give me every right. If you or anyone else makes an idea public it is up for criticism. To suggest something is ever unquestionable or free from criticism is appalling. Also we don't criticism christianity alone.
Ok, I think faith by itself is one of the poorest methods of finding truth. Also it is not just false hope I am worried about. It is that people have and are using it to justify otherwise horrible acts.
You think it is stupid, that it means nothing, and this has not implication to real life. Eric, these ideas are thought out, means a lot to everyone doing something, and is very much a part of our lives. If you want to argue we cannot criticize the faithful you can not criticize anyone.
First Amendment allows me to say and think what I want. I think that gives me enough right to say that
Well, in my view, religion has about all the benifits of drug use. Sure it causes a high, and a good feeling, but after a while, it just takes more and more to get the same feeling. It saps away your money and time. It causes you to turn on friends and family. It even begins to effect your ability to think clearly. So for some teens, sure, they may feel that religion is going good for them, just like some think that their heroine addiction is going good for them. I happen to feel differently, and I wouldn't be a humanist if I didn't do what I could to help a person with something I feel is hurting them.
Because I'd rather see you have hope for the life you can actually live, and not put everything on a gamble for after you die. We only know that we have this life and this one alone. I don't feel that I'm taking away hope. I have plenty of hope for an afterlife. Hell, I think it may be genetic to want to exist forever. The difference is, I don't think that the way to it would be through some ancient social code for a society obsessed with mysogony and sexual controls.
The same reason you feel you have the right to criticize and make fun of atheism just because you don't share the same beliefs as Atheists. We disagree, so we must debate, otherwise the difference becomes a divider and we are split apart.
If your faith can be crushed by words on a website, then I wonder if your basis for it is really as solid as you say.
Says the man taking time out of his day to respond to us instead of ignoring us as the waste of time that we obviously are.
-Humanistic Jones, RRS forum junkie, ReligiousFreaks regular poster
[Edited because darth_josh did not write it. Eric posed the questions through the contact form. Thank you. He will be notified of your response.]
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This site is for the purpose of expressing our opinions and debating theists. We are not forcing anything on anybody.
What right to Christians and Muslims have to evangelize?
We have every right to tell people they are irrational, because this is a free country. Just as a theist has the right to tell people that they must follow Jesus to get into heaven. Ever heard of, oh, I don't know, this insignificant little article called THE FIRST AMENDMENT?
You criticize us for thinking and debating, but turn a blind eye to the fact that religion has for centuries (especially Christianity and Islam) have converted people at swordpoint.
So I suppose, by your logic, that if it is wrong to criticize Christians, then it is wrong to criticize cults? They believe things that are just as ridiculous and unsubstantiated as the myths of the bible. What about other religions? Why is your post Christian-centric? Would you care if we criticized other religions, or are you just a Christian who is irritated because his illogical faith is being subjected to rigorous, scientific debunking?
"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.
-Me
Books about atheism
I have the right and the freedom of free speech based on the first ammendment. However, you have the right not to listen!
P.S. The first ammendment came from secularism and has nothing to do with religion or the bible.
I question why you think you have the right to indoctrinate young minds before they have a choice of religion?
"Those who think they know don't know. Those that know they don't know, know."
Obviously someone is threatend by the United States Constitution. I'd suggest you read it. It's what also gives you the right to believe in fictional characters. We dont want to use government force to get you to stop believing, but we certainly are tired of believers making claims and expecting those claims not to be challenged, especially under a Constitution that supports the free market of ideas. Are you afraid of making a case for your deity?
Would you bow to a Muslim threating you with their version of hell? No, so why shouldnt we challenge claims too?
"Question with boldness even the existance of God, for if there be one, certainly he would pay more homage to reason than to that of blindfolded fear" Thomas Jefferson.
"As the goverment of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion" Barbary Treaty(aka) Treaty of Tripoly artical 11, signed without dissent by both houses of congress and signed into law by President John Adams June 10TH 1797.
Dispite the right wing revisionist garbage you have been sold, humans, not any deity wrote it. I am so glad you had no hand in our founding law called the Constitution.
"What gives us the right"
THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION, IT'S NOT JUST FOR CHRISTIANS ANYMORE!
"Freedom of speech" cuts both ways. So put up, or shut up. If you have evidence for the existance of your deity, make your case. But do not expect us to play nice to people who dont want us to have a voice simply because their insecurities wont allow them to be brave enough to make a case.
Atheists are rough on religion for damned good reason. Look any news station and look at the state of religion. Left vs Right versions of Jesus condemning each other and vying for political power. Falwell condmening Jessie Jackson. Jessie Jackson condmening Falwell. Jews condeming Muslims, Muslims condmening Jews. Christians condmening Muslims. Muslims condmening Christians.
You think all this division in the world is good? You think all the people who dont want religion playing politics or using force want dogmatic sectarian people want to be taken out over a phallace mesuring contest?
You think it is ok for people make puplbic policy based on a religious book? If it is not ok for Muslims to do it, why the hell do Christians on the left or right think it is ok here?
What gives us the right? OUR SURVIVAL as a species. Excuse me for not wanting to be part of a stupid mushroom cloud based on some selfish ideology that Muslims or Christains have the right to use politics or war to create global domination.
Do you think all people of these labels hate atheists? Do you think all people in these religions want to assert their dominance on others? Not all do and pleanty of theists agree with us that the dogmatism of ideology and the blind worship of individuals, politicians and blind worship of anyone or any deity is distructive?
What gives us the right? I want to live, and I think most humans do too. But they dont see how easy it is to debate. They dont see that it is much easyer to take responsibility for ones own actions rather than dictate to others.
What gives us the right? Bright minds like Jefferson and Paine and Franklin who valued the individual and dispised sheep. They wanted to create a goverment where dissagreement did not have to end in death.
Religion without watchdogs leads to death. I'd like to see the day when deities are left up to debate outside politics. I'd like to see the day when all of humanity is free from the fear of their neighbors. That wont happen without boldness in questioning. That wont happen in fearmongering, posturing and propaganda.
Worship of Falwell or Kim Jong Ill is as bad as worshiping Stalin. Killing is easy unfortunatly. Thinking is much harder and requires much more bravery and introspection than, "I am going to kick your ass for hurting my feelings".
Blasphemy laws are the first sign of tyrany. So, be brave and make the case for your deity. But do not expect an atheist or even religious people outside your sect to be silent when you make claims about "What is right". The future of humintity is at stake and it shouldnt take violence or political dominance at the cost of opressing others to improve the lives of all humans.
In laymans terms. "What gives me the right"? My existance and my disire to live in a world where I dont have to fear opression or violence from people I dissagree with.
I dont expect you to blindly give up what you believe so do me the favor of recipocation and dont expect me not to criticise you. Both can say what we want with the understanding that words can remain that and who ever has the best case the other should be mature enough to concider it.
Is that blunt enough for you? I dont hate you personally. I dont know you. But I am tired of Muslims and Christians both liberal and conservitive of using the planet I live on as a dick messuring contest rather than making the existance of any deity a matter of debate.
What would be so horrible about a world where we were all living in peace? Nothing. But the problem is peace is not obtained by religion through free inquery. Peace to Muslims and Christians is "I am the alpha male and you will accept your place at the back of the bus".
That "My way or the highway" attitude divides humanity. "Divine intitlement" and "Chosen people" sets humans up to be sheep. I am not a sheep and I am tired of the alpha male mentality of religion.
We all have familys. We all have friends. We all disire save environments to live. We all want to be free from political or forcable corision over our bodies or brains. We all need food and disire to be healthy.
Utopias dont exist and it is time humanity give up on that ideological utopia. If there is any pragmatic goal humanity can maximize is the concept of dying naturally from old age. Dissagreements should be settled through diolouge and debate, not political or religious force.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Because we value truth, and the truth is that faith is irrational. Are you advocating that we should lie to them? I prefer honesty.
Because while it *might* go well, odds are very good that it won't, and the person will be trapped in a life of ignorance and intolerance. We have something better that works a lot more reliably: Rationality.
Because not only are they false, but they are dangerous to the world. If your great hope for the future is the end of the world (Revelations), that is a dangerous thing to hope for. We have a better hope, the hope that the world need not end, and that we can survive as a species to find peace on earth and explore the rest of the universe.
It is not only because we don't share those beliefs, but also because those beliefs are false and dangerous to the world. They affect us, threatening our survival.
Are you trying to crush my hope in a peaceful future? Shame on you for being a hypocrite.
By 'real life', do you mean a life based on reality? I already have that. I hope one day you will see through the fantasy story in the Bible and see the wonder of real life too.
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Brilliant!
You should make that into a T-Shirt and sell it on EvolveFish or something!
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legally yea you have the right to say what ever you want about anything, it doesnt have to be religion
my opinion about a lot of people on this site is, well i still dont this its right for you to call some one irrational (or stupid which i'm sure is the point you are trying to get across, your just trying to be polite about it i guess) to believe in God, and its not like i'm trying to convert anyone on this site, nor do i really want to since i'm sure you are all convinced that your Atheist and your beliefs are based on logic and the fact that there is no scientific evidence proving that there is a god (which is most likely why you call people irrational)
if some one believes in a god, and has been for many years, and if they value their religion and take it as seriously as you take your lack of religion, i'll admit some times it wont change thier lives if they give it up
all it does is gives us hope for something better once we die, and if our hopes happen to be indeed false, it wont really matter. All it does take some relief off the fear of death, you mite believe that we are just going to rot in the ground, and if your ok with believing in that..thats fine. But some people like to have the hope that there is a life after death, it wont really matter if thier hopes are false once they die
people just want something to believe in, and thats why i dont exactly think that its right to call someone elses religous beliefs dumb or irrational
ps. the very last comment i left "this whole thing is stupid, you people need to get real lives" thing, i'll admit it was unnessacary and i apologize since u obviously have lives since u maintain this site and it seems successful, i wrote that when i was upset when i saw "The Blasphemy Challenge" thing on youtube. You have to know more then half of those kids just wanted thier moment of fame if they were on that site so they can go to thier friends and tell them that they are on a web page other then myspace, and those kids, truely need to get lives
i most likely wont read any responses or reply, i honestly dont like this site, and am questioning why i even sent that first e-mail to begin with
- Eric
Yes legally your opinion is protected by the first amendment. Although i wasn't trying to say you have no right to question religion. It is your right as an American and as a human being to express your opinion however you choose too. I just don't feel that critisizing other's beliefs is right. I'm not saying that Atheists are wrong or irrational for being Athiest, and I think its just plain stupid for other people to try to tell them that they are wrong and try to pound each and every page of any type of religious text into thier head. I dont't critisize other's beliefs when it comes to religion(although I did say you all need lives but i justifed it in an earlier response and again I apologize), If some one chooses to worship a rock, hell let them worship a rock, I choose to worship god and if that makes me irrational in your eyes, frankly I couldn't care less. Like you have explained, we are human beings, we have the right to believe or not to believe whatever we want. I only choose to believe in god, and not because I was brought up on Christianity, I choose to believe out of my own free will. And yes, everyone knows that religion these days is more corrupt then it ever has been, and i completly agree with your alpha-male analogy. Although I feel that getting rid of religion completly wouldn't exacltly be most benifitial. Its most likely impossible for it to happen, but religion would be better off if everyone of different religions would just leave eachother alone. Although most humans are not capable of questioning other religions without playing the "I'm right your wrong" type game. We can't just simply explain why we prefer one religion over another without it becoming a huge contraversy.
But religion gives us something to believe in and to have faith in. And a lot of the time it reassures me in the decisions I make. It gives me a sense of well-being and the whole reason why everyone gets so upset with eachother is Christians and Muslims and what ever other religion most likely feel like you are trying to take that away from us. Which I'm sure isn't your intention, your just expressing your opinions on religion which is a good thing and i encourage you to do so. Just most people (including myself sometimes) with a religion don't like to hear that they are irrational for thier beliefs and get offended when they do hear so. Which is why Athiests are shunned by most of society, which is really a sad thing because all they are doing is choosing not to believe which they have a right to by the American Constitution.
I just don't see why everyone can't see the same way as eachother and leave eachother's beliefs alone without offending one another just because one raises question about another. I'll admit, religion is corrupt. But still i choose to be a believer in Christ and God. Since it is in fact, a right I have as a Human Being
I recognize that pic from voice class.
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No, that's not the point I'm trying to get across. I'd rather use "misinformed", in some rare cases even "ignorant".
Good.
I could say the same about kids believing in Santa.
Of course it won't matter when you're dead. What is important is what happens before that.
So practically, what you're saying is that religion is nothing but spiritual comfort?
If people NEED that, then those people are very weak and easy to sway. Not people I would like to have around.
Some weird kids have the need to believe in imaginary friends... Don't that make them irrational ? Same with your sky daddy...
Inquisition - "The flames are all long gone, but the pain lingers on..."
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Please tell that to the Jehovah's Witnesses the next time they bang on my door on a Saturday morning and wake me up.
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Actually, that is exactly why it is right to call religious beliefs irrational. Holding a belief based on such wishful thinking is irrational by definition.
"Killing for peace is like fucking for chastity"