Question on the Blasphemy Challenge
Offline I am a bit new at this so I may be posting this in the wrong place. So if someone wants to move it around to the right place that is cool.
I was intrigued by the blasphemy challenge thing, I saw it on a news link. So I have cruised around a bit on the web site and the forums trying to find out if my question has already been answered. I could not find anything so I decided to just drop a line and see if I can get some feedback.
The text that drives the challenge is Mk 3:20-30, and I was wondering if anyone pointed out that the context there is one where Jesus is talking to religious people. It was teachers of the law who were attributing the work of Jesus in casting out demons to satanic power. So here we have people sharing a similar revelatory base (the Old Testament) and they are rejecting the witness of the Holy Spirit to Jesus.
It just seems somewhat "showboatish" to jump on this text and act as if it proves something by God's apparent nonactivity in the face of open blasphemy by people who claim not to believe in the revelatory accounts of the Old and New Testament anyway. God's patience and willingness to be mocked and misunderstood is a major theme in Jesus. So it seems to be more for "shock value" and to generate news than some kind of real test. You cannot deny the Holy Spirit that you do not believe in, in the same way that these teachers of the law were rejecting the witness of what God was doing in the works of Jesus.
The patience, kindness, and dignity that Jesus treats people with in the Gospels means unfortunately that the blasphemy challenge is not going to be "answered" in some kind of spectacular manner. God continues working in quiet and gracious ways, fanning sparks of faith found in the most unlikely of places, even among those who are unaware of him.
So if shock value is what you are looking for, the blasphemy challenge works, but if your actually trying to get at something, as in drumming up some kind of divine response, then a bit of exegesis is required on your part first.
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Offline It's just a message to the world that there are these things on the planet called atheist and we are not afraid of your threats of everlasting torture.
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Offline we dont believe in a "divine response"
the whole point of the blasphemy challenge is to bring atheists together and speak out against the irrationality of theism.
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Offline The text that drives the challenge is Mk 3:20-30, and I was wondering if anyone pointed out that the context there is one where Jesus is talking to religious people. It was teachers of the law who were attributing the work of Jesus in casting out demons to satanic power. So here we have people sharing a similar revelatory base (the Old Testament) and they are rejecting the witness of the Holy Spirit to Jesus.
You would thus demonstrate having completely missed the point. We do not believe in that nonsense. We do not believe in demons and evil spirits. The rejection of the Holy Spirit is merely a way of bringing atheists together to protest the irrationality of theism, something which was already pointed out.
It just seems somewhat "showboatish" to jump on this text and act as if it proves something by God's apparent nonactivity in the face of open blasphemy by people who claim not to believe in the revelatory accounts of the Old and New Testament anyway. God's patience and willingness to be mocked and misunderstood is a major theme in Jesus. So it seems to be more for "shock value" and to generate news than some kind of real test. You cannot deny the Holy Spirit that you do not believe in, in the same way that these teachers of the law were rejecting the witness of what God was doing in the works of Jesus.
We don't believe God will react to the challenge because he does not exist. Seriously, this is a highly irrational set of questions. You are asking an atheist whether he is trying to provoke God! Come on! That's like asking a 40 year old whether Santa thinks he's been naughty or nice.
The patience, kindness, and dignity that Jesus treats people with in the Gospels means unfortunately that the blasphemy challenge is not going to be "answered" in some kind of spectacular manner. God continues working in quiet and gracious ways, fanning sparks of faith found in the most unlikely of places, even among those who are unaware of him.
*head bangs on wall*. The only thing you demonstrate is inability to grasp the notion that there are people who don't believe in God. We do not reject God. Rejection of something would require you acknowledge that it exists. God does not exist. The only thing the blasphemy challenge was meant to provoke was people.
So if shock value is what you are looking for, the blasphemy challenge works, but if your actually trying to get at something, as in drumming up some kind of divine response, then a bit of exegesis is required on your part first.
That's ridiculous. "A divine response". But we do not believe in the divine as the concept is nonsensical. The whole point of the blasphemy challenge, was, for the umpteenth time, to provoke people, not a nonexistent deity.
"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.
-Me
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Offline I was intrigued by the blasphemy challenge thing, I saw it on a news link. So I have cruised around a bit on the web site and the forums trying to find out if my question has already been answered. I could not find anything so I decided to just drop a line and see if I can get some feedback.
The text that drives the challenge is Mk 3:20-30, and I was wondering if anyone pointed out that the context there is one where Jesus is talking to religious people. It was teachers of the law who were attributing the work of Jesus in casting out demons to satanic power. So here we have people sharing a similar revelatory base (the Old Testament) and they are rejecting the witness of the Holy Spirit to Jesus.
Why would a religious person go against their religion? I'd figure that one would have to switch religions long before one would commit serious blasphemy against the religion.
Also, does this not mean that those who doubt any modern day messiah (such as David Koresh or TedJesusChristGOD) might be committing the unforgivable sin?
It just seems somewhat "showboatish" to jump on this text and act as if it proves something by God's apparent nonactivity in the face of open blasphemy by people who claim not to believe in the revelatory accounts of the Old and New Testament anyway. God's patience and willingness to be mocked and misunderstood is a major theme in Jesus. So it seems to be more for "shock value" and to generate news than some kind of real test. You cannot deny the Holy Spirit that you do not believe in, in the same way that these teachers of the law were rejecting the witness of what God was doing in the works of Jesus.
I haven't taken the challenge. No camera. However, I see the point. It gets publicity, yes, but it energizes otherwise closeted atheists. Most of us are rejected by the religious, which make up the majority.
The patience, kindness, and dignity that Jesus treats people with in the Gospels means unfortunately that the blasphemy challenge is not going to be "answered" in some kind of spectacular manner. God continues working in quiet and gracious ways, fanning sparks of faith found in the most unlikely of places, even among those who are unaware of him.
Patience, kindness, dignity?
"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39 NASB)
"49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. (Luke 12:49-53)
26"He replied, 'I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what he has will be taken away. 27But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me."(Luke 19:26-27)
Then there was the whole thing with the moneychangers...not kind OR dignified, or patient in the least.
So if shock value is what you are looking for, the blasphemy challenge works, but if your actually trying to get at something, as in drumming up some kind of divine response, then a bit of exegesis is required on your part first.
I don't think anyone who took the challenge expects a divine response.
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Offline The point of the challenge was not to blasphemy to try to challenge people or God to respond. The challenge was to actually do the blasphemy.
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This has been addressed here approximately 8,975,734,823,089,756,123,657,839,684 times.
You can deny the existence of the holy spirit. Not that that is the point. We've seen about 5,675 theists come here and point out that denying the holy spirit isn't the only unforgivable sin. Fine, who cares, the whole purpose of the challenge was to heighten awareness, build some buzz, and show people that there are atheists everywhere in the world, and that we're not going to be content to sit in the corner and keep our mouths shut anymore.
As you just pointed out, we don't believe in the holy spirit, or god. Therefore, nobody who took the blasphemy challenge expected to enrage some god and get a reaction. Of course, you might take your message to your idiot theist brethren Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell the next time one of them claims a hurricane is punishment from god.
Yes, well, thank you for your validation. We don't believe in the divine, niwit, so this obviously had nothing to do with the motives behind the BC.
"The powerful have always created false images of the weak."