Dude, there are plenty of reasons for a rational person to fear Iran and do something if they actually reach the "nucular" threashold, no matter what you think of Bush...

I may not like the BBC politically, but here's what they have to say:

NUCLEAR WEAPONS
"A nation which has culture, logic and civilisation does not need nuclear weapons. The countries which seek nuclear weapons are those which want to solve all problems by the use of force. Our nation does not need such weapons."

NUCLEAR RESEARCH
"We are asked why we have started [nuclear] research. We answer that there is no limitation to research. There are no limits imposed on research in NPT [Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty] or in the Additional Protocol. Nor have we made such a commitment. Research is necessary for the life and dynamism of a nation."

So which is it A-mad-jihad?  We don't need these weapons because we're all so civilized, but we're going to research them anyway...  LOL

CHALLENGES AND THREATS
"The prevalence of military domination, increasing poverty, the growing gap between rich and poor countries, violence as a means to solve crises, spread of terrorism - especially state terrorism - existence and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, the pervasive lack of honesty in interstate relations, and disregard for the equal rights of peoples and nations in international relations, constitute some of the challenges and threats."

Wow!  So a Nation that is an Islamic Foundamentalist Theocracy which thinks a)that the military destruction of Israel is a good idea, b) is a major supporter of international terrorism, c) is THE backbone of Hamas which routinely uses military weapons and terror tactics in Lebannon and Israel, d) seeks to research and build a Nuclear weapons and energy program, e) disregards the rights of the Iranian people by subjugating them to an Islamic Theocracy, f) diregards the rights of other nations like Israel, Lebannon, and the USA, g) hold women and Jews to be sub-human and posessions to own, is complaining about other nations?

ISRAEL
"As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map."

THE HOLOCAUST
"They have created a myth today that they call the massacre of Jews and they consider it a principle above God, religions and the prophets."

GOVERNMENT
"Government belongs to all people. It has to address the problems of every parts of the country. All parts of the country should move forward simultaneously. Every Iranian is entitled to equal right, especially in developing individual talent and development."

Except women and non-islamic-fundamentalists...

MORALITY
"Human excellence, the excellence of human society comes about in the light of justice and spirituality. Measures that are taken outside religious morality, politics minus morality, economics minus morality, culture minus morality only turns the world into a hell for nations and humanity."

Of course, he means ISLAMIC MORALITY which IS making the world a HELL for nations and humanity.

HUMAN RIGHTS
"We neither oppress anyone nor are we prepared to submit to anyone's oppression. We want justice, peace and security for all nations. We are defenders of human dignity all across the world."

Except women and non-islamic-fundamentalists...

BELIEF
"Belief in a saviour is universal. It is the pivot of our beliefs as Muslims and Iranians. We believe that an offspring of the prophet, may peace be upon him, will be the ultimate saviour. His name and attributes are clear. He will come and will administer ultimate justice."

Sound familiar?

IRANIAN POWER
"The Iranian nation is a learned nation. It is a civilised nation. It is a history-making nation... You know and we know: you need us far more than we need you."

We should all be a little more like Iran, don't you think?  This is a guy who is as driven to bring about the "Conflict of civilizations" as much as Bush seems to be on his little "Crusaide."

Well put Brian.

If we look at how "well" things are going in Iraq, and the administration believes they are, why would they change their foreign policy strategy for Iran? Our government is being run by clowns who don't learn from their mistakes. Any mistakes they precieve, they blame on liberals and the media.

Plus, the fact that W created a "war czar" to do the job that a "commander in cheif" should be doing speaks volumes. The man just passes the buck and blames others. 

The fact that bush is meeting with the xtian right is not surprising at all, he is in part, the xtian right. My feeling is that the meeting was a way for bush to start selling the war to the "religious" masses from a religious, fear based agenda. Let's not forget Israel, which is the elephant in the room when it comes to middle eastern affairs. Israel is lobbying very hard for the invasion of Iran. Regardless of whether Iran scares us or not, I think that we are being sold out to the israelis and the way the media reports it all si completely skewed. Israel needs  the support of the xtian right in order to keep getting military support from the US. And the xtian right wants Israel preserved so that Jeebus can come back. This is why you see many xtians supporting Israel unabashadly. Ironically, part of this agenda is a small gear in the whole war machine. Let's not forget that most of the "religoius" leaders probably don't even believe any more. What they do believe is that religion makes them $$$$$$$$$$$$ and they see lots of it in the middle east. Israel is a cash cow for the MIC. War profiteering is part of the bigger agenda that caused the union between the neocons and the theocons.  Now we have perpetual war....I mean after all Halliburton's executives have families to feed and yacht vacations to take.  We wouldn't want to take that away from them now would be?

Whilst I am not pro-Iran, nor am I particularly pro-American. The biggest problem in nuclear terms is the hypocrisy! The UK and the USA go about as if they are perfectly within their rights to have nuclear weapons but when Iran or North Korea have them they become an "axis of evil". It doesn't excuse Iran and North Korea for building up nuclear facilities but there is a big double standard here, especially considering the corrupt, right-wing government of BushCo.

In terms of religion, from what I gather, despite the rule of Iran being theocratic there is a growing Enlightenment movement happening within Iran, a suppressed Enlightenment but an Enlightenment nontheless. Destroying Iran could well destroy this too. Especially since America is undergoing a de-Enlightenment, a rise in theocratic values and the demise of personal liberty in favour of Capitalist Christianity.

I am unsure as to George Bush' faith. Despite his obvious failings I do not think him a fundy (although probably a Christian), he is pragmatic, because the religious right are a strong base of Republican support and growing. I think Bush is a greedy, self-indulgent, half-witted, Capitalist pig but I think like Hitler he uses religion as a tool rather than actually being a theocrat.  

Are you trying to make a moral equivalence arguement on behalf of North Korea and Iran?

Rationally speaking, the United States, The United Kingdom, France, and Israel have NEVER, to my knowledge, threatened to use "any means necessary" to wipe a people off the face of the planet.

The reason that it's irrational to make the arguement that "we have them so why can't they" is that we're not threatening anyone with the use of these weapons.  We built up our arsenal of weapons during the cold war as a defensive move.  Perhaps you've heard of Mutually Assured Destruction?

We can't say that a Nation like Iran wouldn't use these weapons in an offensive capacity when that's exactly what they've said they would like to do if they could.  

North Korea wants to use Nuclear Weapons to basically blackmail the rest of the world.  Give us food and money and goods or we'll build this bomb and use it...  We used the bomb on Japan in order to END a destructive conflict.  They would use them to get what they want...  can you not see the difference?

If you think that the government of Iran will let that get anywhere, then I have a nice little tropical island I'd like to sell you...    Eventually, if the movement can grow and overthrow the government in Iran, then that's all the better.  But if that doesn't happen before the Mulahs <sp> get the bomb, it might not matter because they might well that same enlightenment movement into a war that will end baddly anyway...  

You might be right.  But he's still better than the psuedo-communists and conspiracy theory nuts that make up the base of the modern democratic party these days...  at least he can't get much done because he's an idiot... 

Touche' Vastet!

And does anyone really know what will happen if the U.S. gets involved in a war with Iran? Some things to consider:

Russia. They have nukes. Whose side do you think they'll take?

The price of petroleum. Can we afford $10.00 a gallon at the pump?

Iran has other allies in the Middle East, I doubt we will be just fighting them and Russia.

The cost of war. The Iraqi occupation has already put us billions of dollars in dept.

The cost in lives. Enough said.   

I wasn't trying to create a moral equivolence. It isn't a case of why can't they? It's a case of why should we? The US or UK aren't exactly good guys! I'm pretty much against nuclear weapons full-stop. It just seems immensely dangerous to have at our disposal weapons that could potentially destroy life on earth. I wasn't saying North Korea and Iran were necessarily good countries, in fact they're terrible places, much worse than the West, but when you have a neo-con, evangelistic imbecile in charge of a nuclear arsenal and claiming his right to one whilst denying anyone else there is a double standard. The absolute crucial point is that no-one should have these things not even as a deterrant!