question for theists (xposted)

Slayne
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question for theists (xposted)

 I just wondered... As theists I wonder why you have signed on to this site. I often wonder if it is because you:

 

A) Question your faith(agnostic theism)

B) think maybe by some measure you can get us to rationalize god(s)

C)have an inbetween stance on religion

D) feel it as an obligation to understand both sides of the arguement

E) maybe some other reason I am not quite aware of

 

My reasons for asking are not out of critical or malicious intent but rather a curiousity. I realize having no belief in todays society is veiwed by theists as  highly objectionable and therefore leaves me to question why you are here... I can only assume you are from Theist families or communities, so if you being here is known about by any of them what sort of shadow does it cast on you? or is Rational Response a dirty secret?

on top of that given you have been in the forums for a while what light have you seen in our site?

please give Details.

If God didn't want atheists than we wouldn't exist..


jread
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I am 100% D.However, when I

I am 100% D.

However, when I first came to this site, it was partially option B. When I first arrived I thought I had the landmark case against atheism: that it was faith based. I received tons of "oh god, not this shit again" type replies and this immediately frustrated me. I began researching to figure out why I failed so miserably in my initial goals: to prove atheism wrong. Well, after reading up on atheism and later naturalism, I understood why I failed. Along the way, I have not given up my research and learning. Even though I still retain my faith, I will admit that it has augmented since I've begun searching. By augmented, I mean that it has become less certain in its claims, and less literal when it comes to how my faith dictates the way I understand the world. For example, I don't believe the Biblical story of creation to be the entire explanation of God made the universe; instead, I see it as merely a dumbed-down story of how God did what he did in terms that we could understand.

I have a strong desire to understand the things which I believe in and the things I don't believe in. Now, before you ask me if I've sought to understand the flying spaghetti monster, I will add a small qualifier to my statement: My understanding is limited, in this context, to attempting to understand the anti-thesis of what I hold to be true. For example, being a theist, the anti-thesis is atheism. Thus, according to my desires, I wish to understand and genuinely consider atheism's tenets and claims versus the beliefs I hold as a theist. By doing so, I feel that I can hold an intermittent position between both theism and atheism allowing me to converse freely with an atheist and have a fruitful discussion about important questions.

For instance, I have a very good friend at school who studied philosophy with me. I have since graduated, but I've still kept in contact with him. His is an agnostic atheist, and at first, we had a lot of trouble talking to one another. We frequently had problems with what the other said based primarily on a lack of comprehension of the other. However, since I've begun my intense reading and researching on the topic of atheism and naturalism and evolution, our conversations have become incredibly fruitful. We have awesome discussions about the wonder of evolution, the brilliantness of memes, and the utter awe at the universe and our small position within it, just to name a few of our topics. I believe that we are only able to now have these conversations because we both understand one another. We trust that the other isn't lying. We know that the other has read primary sources on the topic under discussion. Thus, if I disagree with a point he makes concerning evolution, I point to evidence, not emotion. If I say something that he disagrees with, he doesn't accuse my faith, he accuses my reasoning and comprehension. Essentially, we both have a common ground with which to marvel at the universe and life on Earth as it presently exists. The differences between us beliefs wise, does not hinder our understanding of one another. I firmly believe that this avenue is only available to the two of us because we both have put in the effort to understand the other's beliefs.

My ultimate goal is not to convert non-believers. My ultimate goal is to converse, meaningfully, with those who my faith would discourage me from speaking with, unless it was to convert them. I want to talk to who I want to, I am not afraid of what they will say. I will not be ignorant to a whole entire majority of this planet. I just won't.

The implication that we should put Darwinism on trial overlooks the fact that Darwinism has always been on trial within the scientific community. -- From Finding Darwin's God by Kenneth R. Miller

Chaos and chance don't mean the absence of law and order, but rather the presence of order so complex that it lies beyond our abilities to grasp and describe it. -- From From Certainty to Uncertainty by F. David Peat


shortandy
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 I just happended to see a

 I just happended to see a debate that involved the founders of this site so I chose to sign up and enter into debate and conversation about the issues. I wanted to see exactly what the other side was saying.


Cali_Athiest2
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shortandy wrote: I just

shortandy wrote:

 I just happended to see a debate that involved the founders of this site so I chose to sign up and enter into debate and conversation about the issues. I wanted to see exactly what the other side was saying.

Welcome aboard, but who is the "other" side exactly?

"Always seek out the truth, but avoid at all costs those that claim to have found it" ANONYMOUS


Slayne
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shortandy wrote: I just

shortandy wrote:

 I just happended to see a debate that involved the founders of this site so I chose to sign up and enter into debate and conversation about the issues. I wanted to see exactly what the other side was saying.

well thats cool. but what is meant by the otherside, you make it sound like war? this is not war its just a bunch of intellectuals with a purpose.

If God didn't want atheists than we wouldn't exist..


ackbar
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jread wrote:I am 100%

jread wrote:

I am 100% D.

However, when I first came to this site, it was partially option B. 

 

This is one of the better theist posts i have read....

 

well done...

 

 


daedalus
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jread wrote:For example, I

jread wrote:

For example, I don't believe the Biblical story of creation to be the entire explanation of God made the universe; instead, I see it as merely a dumbed-down story of how God did what he did in terms that we could understand.

 

I've seen this before. I'm curious.  Does this mean you always compare the Creation story to what we know of how the universe really came into being?

 

I think "dumbed down" is apt but maybe a bit harsh.

Why can't it just be a myth created by people ignorant of modern science?

If it turns out that the Big Bang never happened, and there is some other theory, do you make the Creation story fit? It seems as if you have a foregone conclusion that the story needs to, somehow, fit to whatever is really true, rather than see if the story matches or not.

 

Do all Creation stories get the leeway you give the one in the Bible?  Why can't all Creation stories be dumbed-down versions of what happened? And why introduce God in the first place?  What gave you the idea a god existed?

Imagine the people who believe such things and who are not ashamed to ignore, totally, all the patient findings of thinking minds through all the centuries since the Bible was written. And it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated, the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us, who would make themselves the guides and leaders of us all; who would force their feeble and childish beliefs on us; who would invade our schools and libraries and homes. I personally resent it bitterly.
Isaac Asimov


Archeopteryx
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 D. When I first came to

 

D.

 

When I first came to the site, I was mostly in disagreement with Christian theism. I came to see if there were any arguments from Christians I hadn't heard before or if there were any arguments from atheists I wasn't yet familiar with.

But there is a lot more meat on this site than simply that. By sticking around, I expose myself to arguments and retorts to all sorts of theists. There is also a lot of knowledge to gain that is valuable even outside of the atheism/theism fiasco, such as science, news, and literature.

A place common to all will be maintained by none. A religion common to all is perhaps not much different.


LosingStreak06
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my response (also xposted)

For me, it is simply because I like atheists. Like you in this topic, I am curious about the way people think, behave, and interact. You are generally much more fun to be around than, say, Christians (although they tend to be a tad more interesting). Also, I tend to be more accepted in the atheist crowd, due to my "unorthodox" behaviors.

As for my those around me knowing of my using this website, I'm quite certain that most of them wouldn't care, and as for the ones that would, rest assured that the Rational Response squad would be the least of their objections.

To be completely and utterly frank, I am not really very fond of the Squad at all (I can imagine the feelings are probably mutual, or would be, rather, given the proper circumstances), but I have a great deal of respect for many of the users of these forums. I wouldn't presume to blanket the entire body of people who use this site with a generalized opinion.


jread
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daedalus wrote: I've seen

daedalus wrote:

 

I've seen this before. I'm curious.  Does this mean you always compare the Creation story to what we know of how the universe really came into being?

No I don't compare the creation story to today's modern scientific theories of how the universe came into being.

Quote:
 

I think "dumbed down" is apt but maybe a bit harsh.

I thought dumbed down sounded right to me because a lot of believers choose to be ignorant of science and are hence "dumb" in regards to what may have actually happened. They instead choose to be believe in the simplistic creation account literally.

Quote:

Why can't it just be a myth created by people ignorant of modern science?

It could, but I don't adhere to that possibility.

Quote:

If it turns out that the Big Bang never happened, and there is some other theory, do you make the Creation story fit?

Perhaps others will, but I don't think that plugging in the creation story where a scientific theory used to be would help anything by way of understanding.

Quote:
It seems as if you have a foregone conclusion that the story needs to, somehow, fit to whatever is really true, rather than see if the story matches or not.

The creation story is so vague that it could practically fit into any model.

Quote:
Do all Creation stories get the leeway you give the one in the Bible? 

I don't claim the supremacy of my beliefs over others.

Quote:
Why can't all Creation stories be dumbed-down versions of what happened?

I never said they couldn't.

Quote:
And why introduce God in the first place? 

I still have reasons to believe. For me personally, science doesn't provide the answers to all the questions that I have, and nor should I expect it to.

Quote:
What gave you the idea a god existed?

Fine, I'll say it, from my childhood. That's undoubtedly where my first idea of God came from. Although, my particular beliefs have changed since I was a child. I really can't claim that in the scheme of things my beliefs now are drastically different. I went from being raised Mormon to just an average joe Christian with no particular denomination. For a stint, I was an introverted atheist. However, after beginning my then college major, I rekindled my belief in God. At that point, it was just God and no religion. A few years later after that, I went back to religion.

The implication that we should put Darwinism on trial overlooks the fact that Darwinism has always been on trial within the scientific community. -- From Finding Darwin's God by Kenneth R. Miller

Chaos and chance don't mean the absence of law and order, but rather the presence of order so complex that it lies beyond our abilities to grasp and describe it. -- From From Certainty to Uncertainty by F. David Peat