I guess you don't get out much.

Thank you for supporting my position.  Great example!

You're wrong.

No, it's not.  It's about real shortcomings.  If a thing is illogical, it is illogical, regardless of who says differently.

I never said I'm into bridge building.  I'm not here to win friends.  I also never said which theists I'm trying to help.  I hold little hope for most theists.  My target is the next generation.  I'm trying to help make America less religious by encouraging atheists not to be silent any longer.  I don't believe there is a middle ground between theism and atheism, and I don't care if theists don't like me because of it.

Gee, kettle, art thou also black?

I thought you didn't like sweeping generalizations.

I have come not to unite men, but to divide them.

Who says I don't understand theists? 

We can discuss anything you like.  If you think I misunderstand something about theism, present me with evidence to the contrary.  If it holds up, I will recant whatever I have said that was wrong.  (Not in this thread.  No hijacking my thread with off topic stuff.)

...and the god-believers are pushing it. I want a posterity.

We have a special guest lurking on the forums.  I'm bumping interesting posts of mine for her benefit.  Anyway, I never get tired of this little piece, and we have lots of new theists these days.

there is obviously a reason for the anger we display, and it should be recognized on a greater scale

Anger is often equated with other things, like violence, bigotry, subjugation, etc.  I've posted this article in lots of places all over the web, and it always surprises me how many people read "anger" and think something entirely different.  When I was a Christian, I listened to sermons about "righteous anger" and was told that Jesus was giving us an example by overturning the vendor tables in the temple.  Anger, I was taught, is useful stuff when it is channeled to a worthwhile cause.

Of course, when my anger happens to be directed at Christians, suddenly I'm a horrible person.

Go figure.

When you engage in debate about your own beliefs who are you trying to convince? And when you belittle others and discount thier beliefs you show how small you are. Now this is not aimed at anyone person but the whole as one. What makes you so angry at some Christians also makes some Cristians angry at you. If you go around Telling everyone that you don't believe in what they do. Then turn around and tell them they are morons for believing it. Understand that everything is a belief until proven. You have no proof that there is not a god. Nor do they have proof of a god. An argument without proof is a fools errand. You can site all you want about science but science is not proof against. All you do with that is point out that some of there beliefs are wrong. And when you tell someone that they are wrong they in turn will get angry. So to sum this up your belief is valued only to you and like mined people. Have a nice day.

I have a question - I've been posting on a free website under the "Free" section, meaning to be given away free, and I've been posting "Free Prayers" with the desription - " I wish to pray for anyone. Send me your prayer requests. I ask for nothing in return, as this is free". Anyway, I've gotten alot of hate emails saying "take your sh*t off", "go away", "I pray you go away","stop cluttering up this site", etc. Now, first of all, if they don't like it, then don't read it. Is it hurting them? No. Am I sure these msgs. are from atheists? No. But I've ran across situations like this many times before with atheists, where I was not trying to force my beliefs on them, just voicing my opinion. So what I'm trying to say is "Why are athiests so angry & defensive" even when a believers pretty much minding thier own business. Thanks. And please, I honestly want to try to understand, as I hate conflict and just want everyone to get along. Peace

 Why are atheists so distrusted?

its simply because many of them have an anger, closed-mindedness, and irrationality that puts even radical evangelicals to shame.

For example, I ran into one recently who claimed that the entire religion of Catholicism was faulty because the pope re-instated a holocaust denier.  He then later stated that it would be a good thing if they gathered all the world's christians together, and dropped napalm on them, and continued to defend in all seriousness that we should just kill every christian on the planet because doing so would put an end to war.

Well too damn bad. They started it. You may decry this response as childish, but it is simple self defense. If someone punches me in the face, as christians and other theists have been metaphorically doing to me all my life, then I will punch them back, also in the face. If their friend then comes up to me and whines about how I punched his friend in the face, I'll tell him to fuck off. If he also punches me in the face, then I'll boot stomp the both of them.

This is the essence of the debate, and why theists will never get rid of the angry atheist by whining about the angry atheist. The theist creates them with their existence and arrogance. The very complaint about an angry atheist creates an angry atheist. It's like dropping bombs on civillians. You're just going to create more people willing to blow themselves up to get you back.

You forgot the first step, which is them going around telling everyone that their god is the one and only god, and we will burn in hell (or otherwise applicable bad ending depending on the specific religion being discussed). We only go and tell them that they are full of shit when the shit buildup is so immense that it is leaking out of all of their orifices.

Including god.

We don't need proof, though we do have proof that most defined gods do not exist.

And until they do they are acting irrationally and dangerously. They are impeding my rights and I will stand against them, no matter how many hypocrites rise up whining about how their oppression is being oppressed.

So you admit that everyone who proposes a god is a fool.

Sure it is. 

And when their beliefs centre around an omnipotent and omniscient being, any of their beliefs being wrong means that all of their beliefs are at best questionable, at worst completely wrong.

And so you just pissed off everyone who is an atheist and reads this, creating more angry atheists than existed before you wrote this. Congrats.

It is because you don't really mind your own business. Don't take offense, you do seem like you're trying to be a nice person, so I don't want to piss you off unneccessarily. But you've gone into public and started a conversation about your beliefs in a god. I am sure you know well enough that you could go onto any (insert your religion here) site on the internet and make an offer like this, and for the most part you would get responses that you would like to get, instead of people being nasty to you. But instead you go into the public eye and make this post, when the majority of the Earths populace does not follow any particular sect of any religion, instead of talking to people you know will respond to it in a way you would like to see. 

Cue ignorant rant about "fundamentalist atheists" coming from a literal reading of the quoted snip rather than actually addressing your point... in 5, 4, 3...

Other people?

That doesn't make any sense.

*sigh*

Look, go on wikipedia and search "burden of proof," "probability," and "induction."

What beliefs does science debunk and how?

What does valuable mean? How is it valuable?

You're just a passive-aggressive, drive-by jerk. You don't actually want us to have a nice day.

Hello wondering.

I have nothing against free prayers, but I do not have prayer requests since I don't think they have any effect.

That's sad.

Your impression of atheists is unfortunate. We are not scrooges 24/7; we are people like you. If you really want to understand, I hope that you will register and spend more time here.  

I believe that most atheist are angry out of vent up dweeb angst. 

j/k.

But I'd say the average angry atheist is one with misplaced anger, whose anger deludes him from telling his ass from his elbows, it's an anger that quickly turns misanthropic as well. In my time on this forum, I've encountered unbelievers so vent up with anger, that I don't know if I should be mad when they attempt to take out the resentment on me, or feel sorry for them. I'm not saying all atheist exhibit this "mattshizzle" sort of behavior, but it's still present to a significant enough sense to be noticable. 

And it's not the anger people care to take notice of, it's not righteous anger, but the annoying form, that most people get turned off from hearing. It's the Fred Phelps sort of anger, that doesn't make any friends but the family. Sites like this, like the Fred Phelps family, are just looking to piss people off, the Blasphemy Challenge wasn't a display of non-violent protest, it was a display of non-violent cheap ridicule. Then people on this forum whine about it, and wonder why people don't really like you. 

It never ceases to amaze me that after all these months people still take an advertising gimmick as if it were a statement of principal or a constitution or something.

In general Atheists are nothing but empty shells with no hope inside desperate to cling to the furniture of the ship that's slowly sinking instead of going out to the lifeboats and trusting *the source* of love to give them the wisdom to do their best.              Hope allows the Law of Attractino to work because if you don't have hope guess what?  The law of attraction is still fucking working!   You are creating your own morbid destiny.

          They are right:   Love has no hate:  No right or wrong.      Love is what it is or otherwise it's no longer love and something invented by man kind.

I'll admit there are some atheists that are truly happy and even though that's all you see that may be just your town/area and doesn't reflect atheist.    You are truly lucky to not see negative atheists out there.  

May the universe bless your innocent soul from learning about it the hard way as you will have to learn sooner or later.       You can't just *ignore* an issue because it will offend someone.    

Atheists 1:

"Oh I don't believe the ship is sinking just because a few crew tells me it is and the titling of the ship is just a hallucination since I had a few beers!"  

I'll stick my head in the sand and pretend everything is all right with the world and there is no conspiracies with the White Star Line until I am forced to be involved.

You bash  me and I'll give a new meaning to the word *bash*.  

The reason why the bible seems to have contradictions is because you have to understand what certain words mean from early Hebrew like the famous one where Jesus tells others to turn the other cheek and then says:  "If you do not have a weapon sell your cloak and buy a sword"   That means you should have a weapon to defend yourself but not physically look for fights to *prove yourself* hence *turn the other cheek*.     If someone makes you carry their tent 1 mile ask if you carry it 2 miles.

Jesus's disciples ALL carried weapons hence when Jesus was 'arrested' Peter got angry and cut off the ear to a guard because Peter used anger instead of his head which cutting ears off would not help the situation one bit and Jesus made the ear grow back.         Too bad the guard didn't have the heart to thank Jesus for having his ear back or he would be partly deaf the rest of his career.

Many men and women have fallen into the ego trap to think you either have to disregard your weapons completely or pick fights with them.    An all or nothing kind of thinking which is JUST what the evil spirits want in order to create confusion and conflict within mankind which is why Atheists are full of confusion.   They have fallen into the trap.

This universe was born out of blind arrogance and too much *sin* will have consequences both physical and spiritual not because of hate but to wake you up like if you drive your car recklessly you will eventually get pulled over by the cops or crash instead of observing safety rules.      I bet if there was a *bible* for traffic safety the atheist would complain it's all about following the *Car God*.    

I personally  believe that being *born again* means that you will be born into another life time with the blessings of God that will make bad situations turn out rather then being judged.          It's not bible doctrine AT ALL that you will be judged right away upon death.

They may try to defend otherwise but their actions betray their words with hate.     Atheists are not interested in the hard work of seeking the truth to behind spiritual meanings and instead op the *easy way* out thru being an ass to others and pretending nothing is wrong with the world except thru religion as an excuse to vent out their problems of life they won't' admit they have.

Their posts also contains what would be called a negative aura around them which people sensitive to these kinds of energies do not know if they should be *angry* or *sad*.

    Atheists know they are on the *path* to hell though hell WILL NOT come......even at the end of this life time or any life time someone first hears the message of christ: hence being *born again*     What part of *born again* do you not understand atheists? 

It is also not in the bible that hell is the same for everybody either:  My hell will be different then your hell which my hell may be heaven to your hell.  

For example if you hate *Tickle Me Elmo's* then your hell will be full of *Tickle me Elmo's* at every corner and they will chase you with their creepy giggles.   If you destroy them they will multiply twice as much for each time you break them.        Destroy 1 and 2 will come out.   Destroy 2 and 4 will come out.

I've figured out that Sin is basically anything that is negative and harmful like doing drugs and hurting yourself with drugs is a *sin* to yourself where you cannot function in life and you are hurting those who care about you and want you to not hurt yourself yet you keep pushing them away.

Just because you sin doesn't mean hell is coming tomorrow or the next day or that you are going to hell solely for being around those who do sin.     It is not doctrine at all.  The church has far been removed from the actual doctrines that it's sick.    I wonder if the people actually READ the bibles other then what the pastors tell them to read and find the translation errors.

The hell for the church will be to be stuck in a room with angry atheists that will slander them and enjoy doing so which nothing they say will bring peace since they choose to use the bible for money gains.

"Things" will never be "equal", human nature being what it is throughout the history of civilization. At that...

What proof does Hammy or anyone else have of improving societal conditions being attributable to anger? Sure, there is a correlation. The actual direct cause is motivation, that I understand. Anger motivates people towards action, yes. And sure enough, not all action motivated by anger, anxiety, or bitterness motivates positive, constructive acts. In fact, more often than not... my understanding is it motivates negative, destructive behavior. So it is understandable that someone would react to the promotion of anger, be it from an atheist or someone from the Phelps clan or a 70s televangelist, as a step in the wrong direction. Certainly, some theists the world over get away with promoting anger as a helpful part of religious beliefs. From anecdotal experience, they appear to be the fringe minority that everyone chooses to focus on, at least in the states. As for religious influence having increased since the 50s, well... I believe Sapient posted some evidence indicating the exact opposite is true.

Someone tell me, with the exception of abstinence only education, what have religious lobby groups been successful in achieving in politics? More money? Depriving a gay woman of custody over children because some idiot judge dipshit thinks giving child custody over to an abusive father is an acceptable means to punish gays? Giving Billy Graham a soapbox for his personal views?

Hey look! A moronic theist posted three times just to make a fool of, and agree with, himself, in a 2 year dead topic. It's so sad and pathetic as to be funny.

Yeah... I noticed  that after I posted. Commented anyways, because there's plenty of... stuff lying about for me to disagree with, from the one person Allison stands behind so fervently, no less. This is strange because most of the things she types about atheism I agree with, and most of the people she backs up I don't agree with.

I fucking hate the argument, "There really are no contradictions because you misunderstand the meaning and words in the babble"

TRANSLATION, "I get to make up shit when it suits me." The bible will always support what the believer wants because it isn't based on empiricism, but personal bias. The pathetic thing is that they truly and falsely believe that they are not doing the same thing as Muslims or Jews or any other human in history when they justify their pet deities.

If a bicycle company printed assembly instructions as incoherently as the bible, you'd end up sticking the parts in the oven while praying to a frog. And you'd probably kill someone if they made fun of how you were trying to assemble the bike.

NOW NOW NOW, before the false claims of bigotry and hate, my blasphemy is no different than laughing at you if you claimed the earth was flat. The truth is no human in our species history has done anything differently. Deities are merely the invention of the credulous and serve as nothing more than placebo gap answers.

It wasn't true when people thought volcanos were gods. It wasn't true when the Egyptians prayed to the sun thinking it was a god, and none of the god/s of Abraham are real either. And 5,000 years from now humans will have new made up fictional super heros and look back at the ones today as myths. And after our species goes extinct  there wont be any fictional beings to sell to future generations.

Deities of all stripes, past and present are the greatest delusion ever sold. Mask the skunk in suit, change the color of the tie and change the suit all you want, you are still dressing a skunk.