An Interview With A Local Pastor

bagpiper2005's picture

The following dialog with me and a pastor of a Baptist Church in my area questions me why I stand the way I do today.

-Pastor: So I understand you believe there is no God. May I ask why?
-L.G.: I wouldn't word it that way. I wouldn't say I believe there is no God as I don't have a belief. I would word it more like "I have no belief in God" than "I don't believe in God." The two wordings can have different meanings.

-P: You still haven't answered, why do you believe (or not believe) how you do?
-L: A number of things. In my days of being a Christian and praying I never got the results I wanted. I cried and prayed that God would reveal himself to me. I believed in God, but didn't have any confirmation. This is when I started doubting. I did some research, mainly online, and read "The God Delusion" and found out there is absolutely no evidence to support the existence of God.

-P: Look at yourself in the mirror. You are evidence of God. God created you.
-L: I don't agree. God did not create me. My biological parents did. I was created by the fusion of my mother's egg with my father's sperm. Hardly miraculous, this is an everyday occurrence and one that goes beyond our kind.

-P: What about the world around you?
-L: Again, not direct evidence of creation. Some might suggest it is, but it falls well short of the burden of proof.

-P: What is your definition of the burden of proof?
-L: One of two things would have to happen for my burden of proof to be met. Either God shows himself to me directly, or inflicts me with stigmata pattern wounds which I nor anyone else inflicted upon me.

-P: Isn't that a bit much?
-L: No. I think your requirement of proof is too little.

-P: But I have the holy spirit that dwells in me.
-L: Emotions are hardly proof of anything. If something makes me happy, does it mean it's good for everyone? Of course not, emotions are extremely subjective. I have to see with my own eyes and feel with my own hands.

-P: Does wind exist?
-L: Of course it does.

-P: How do you know this? You can't see it.
-L: I feel it blowing against me.

-P: That's how I know God exists, I feel his presence.
-L: That's all fine and good, but there is one key difference. Wind is empirical. It's not visible, but empirical. We can measure wind using instruments, which are, inanimate objects that can't feel. Inanimate objects cannot feel this existence you're speaking of.

-P: Have you considered the historical accuracy of the Bible?
-L: Yes, I have. It is very historically accurate and I believe it to be a history book. Nothing more. Supernatural occurrences within the Bible which cannot be proven are where the Bible fails to prove the existence of God.

-P: What about the witnesses to the resurrection?
-L: People can lie, in vast numbers. My speculation is they were either compensated to lie, or retold the same oral story over and over again, and ended up in the end being called "witnesses."

-P: What happened to your faith? It used to be so strong.
-L: It did. But then again, I decided not to be a conformist. I decided to think for myself and educate myself. Through my education and as I became enlightened I gained the wisdom and rationality to discern there is no God. I have no need for child-like faith anymore.

-P: Have you thought on Pascal's Wager?
-L: Yes, and I find it to be lacking.

-P: How so?
-L: Well, if there exists no God, I don't want to have lived life following the rules of a non-existent God. That would be a waste of my life. It's a risk either way you go, actually.

-P: Your reasons for being atheist seem a bit selfish, don't they?
-L: Perhaps they are.

-P: I fear for your soul on judgment day.
-L: I'm not afraid.

-P: Why? You should be.
-L: If God exists in the end, I wouldn't want to spend eternity with him anyway.

-P: Are you crazy?
-L: No. I'd like to quote you the following from "The God Delusion." Richard Dawkins sums up perfectly in a mouthful of a sentence what the Christian God is like. He says "Jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."

-P: Who would say such a thing as that? God gave his son for you! That's not being a bully.
-L: In a roundabout way it is. Saying I don't believe in God is a damnable offense. Rape, murder, incest, and other heinous crimes, according to your Bible, are not damnable offenses. That's just not right. Saying God doesn't exist is minute in comparison, it doesn't hurt anyone!

-P: Well, I guess you're right. I still think you're walking on thin ice though.
-L: I never said my belief system wasn't potentially dangerous. But then again, yours is potentially dangerous as well.

-P: In what way?
-L: What if Christianity isn't the right way and another religion is? You're pretty well in trouble if that's the case. You take a risk no matter what you believe in or don't believe in.

-P: But I have confirmation of Christianity's truth.
-L: Just as a Muslim would say he has confirmation of Islam's truth. Same thing.

-P: Well, I'm out of time and questions for you, thanks for dropping by and having this interview with me.
-L: It's been a pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Okay, here goes.

I get where you say you don't believe there is a God to believe in or not.  But I did want to mention two things.  First, having a child is miraculous.  We can't reproduce that.  We have to take the sperm and the egg from parents to do it in a petri dish.  Scientists can't even produce a single cell from non-living material.  Thus the least it is is miraculous.  Secondly, you said you never got the results you wanted when you prayed.  Too be perfectly honest, no kidding.  You were talking to God and He didn't give you what you wanted.  Go figure.  I wouldn't imagine God would answer to anyone that wasn't God (i.e. everyone else). I know that sounds harsh; but imagine making such demands from whoever you think is the most powerful human on the planet.   Like, any of the world leaders; could you imagine demanding proof from them about anything let alone they exist.  That would be laughable at its best, and rude at its worst. 

Is this a real conversation

Is this a real conversation you had? Just curious.

bagpiper2005's picture

Yeah. The guy was just

Yeah. The guy was just curious why I'd gone from being a Bible-thumper one minute to a complete atheist the next. I think he was trying to get me in a pickle and draw me back to the faith, actually. As you can see, he failed miserably as I had a logical response to each one of his questions. 

truthknower wrote: I get

truthknower wrote:
I get where you say you don't believe there is a God to believe in or not. But I did want to mention two things. First, having a child is miraculous. We can't reproduce that. We have to take the sperm and the egg from parents to do it in a petri dish. Scientists can't even produce a single cell from non-living material. Thus the least it is is miraculous. Secondly, you said you never got the results you wanted when you prayed. Too be perfectly honest, no kidding. You were talking to God and He didn't give you what you wanted. Go figure. I wouldn't imagine God would answer to anyone that wasn't God (i.e. everyone else). I know that sounds harsh; but imagine making such demands from whoever you think is the most powerful human on the planet. Like, any of the world leaders; could you imagine demanding proof from them about anything let alone they exist. That would be laughable at its best, and rude at its worst.

 

I promised myself I wouldn't write so often but... 

1. "Scientists can't even produce a single cell from non-living material."

   - You can't prove your God did it either. All you have is a belief in a book that says he did.

2. "Secondly, you said you never got the results you wanted when you prayed. Too be perfectly honest, no kidding. You were talking to God and He didn't give you what you wanted. Go figure. I wouldn't imagine God would answer to anyone that wasn't God (i.e. everyone else)."

 - So, when the son of your God (who is also your God) said in John 14 (according to your book), "And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.", he was just messing with his followers?

Are you believing in one part of your book and junking the other? 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin

Zombie's picture

Excellent interview, I'd

Excellent interview, I'd love to see what the pastor does next with it.