Can anybody write more crap? I'm sure no one has been compelled to re-think their atheism after one debate, nor do theists get bad recerption on 'secular' campuses.

I think this should be a call to us to be particularly bold this week.Let's speak to our friends and others.I feel rather inspired now.

Thanks Kelly

Let them bash with their spiritual weapons. I won't feel a thing.

The attitude and arrogance of this blogger is so typical of many theists. They immediately point to Mao and Stalin and do not mention that it was not Atheism at the core of their societys, but the worship of the state and government as God. He also negelected to mention that Hitler was Catholic. Very convenient.

Ramen to that!

Thank you so much for addressing this. I saw D'Souza's retarded column a couple days ago, and was also offended by the title. It was clearly chosen to be outrageous and attract viewers, as the content doesn't live up the the title. He doesn't actually say that he soundly bashed any atheist's ass, and instead uses it as a way to subliminally say "Look at what an awesome theist I am, I get to debate all these famous atheists. I must be famous! Bow to me!" What an ass.

I will take it as a compliment that Kelly and I both picked up on the same story. Kelly, you and Brian are my heroes!  (LOL)

If you care to see my version

http://positiveatheist.blogspot.com/

Peace

TK

Here is my response at that site.

. He doesn't get it. He confuses criticism with hate. If someone said "Thor making lighting is an absurd claim" He would absurdly call people "anti-Thor".

He rightfully rejects claims of Allah picking the sex of the baby, but refuses to apply that same logic to his own magical claims.

How meek should skeptics be according to him? If Muslims were pushing Allah in biology class, would he sit back and take it? Yet he wants education to be based on a book that offers NO formulas, or mechanisms, or control groups, and offers nothing but a "POOF" explanation to life, and then falsely accuses the people pointing this out as being "hateful".

He cant even see that THERE ARE Christians who, unlike him, can separate AND DO separate, their personal whims from the universal tool of scientific method. Just as he would object to Allah based science.

His tactic of dehumanizing those who fight back against those who turn science into faith based sci-fi wont work.

We do not expect religion to be forcibly ended by any government, nor should it be, and do value the founders concept of the "mind of the individual". But, scientific method must be protected from religious agendas.

If he wants to flame atheists, he can and no free speech lover would stop him. But for him to call blunt people Dawkins who don't sugar coat reality
hateful, is absurd, and he shouldn't be shocked when we return the favor.

WE DON'T CARE WHAT YOU BELIEVE! GET IT!

We care what he sells is affecting lagit science in attempt to prop up his bias agenda based on an unscientific book.

 I've never been able to take this guy seriously.

Anyway, while it may seem as though our numbers aren't increasing rapidly enough, our work is clearly not as difficult as that of theists. Since joining this site, I've watched five people "deconvert" pretty casually, like "Oh. I guess I'm an atheist, too, then. Huh." No "Hosanna Rama Rama Ding Ding" or promises, just a simple realization over a beer.

I doubt most theists have seen five people convert in their lives. I've only been on here for a few months, and it's not like I'm trying. One example: a friend asked me, "What's it like to be an atheist?" I said, "Pretty much the same, except with no gods." He thought about it for a second and said, "I guess I never really bought any of that stuff anyway. I suppose I'm an atheist." His biggest concern after that was whether he had to be crabby and wear black.

"Well, you have to be crabby," I answered, "otherwise Kelly The Atheist Stripper Hive Queen will send her drones to destroy you."

"So 'no'."

"Right."

As melodramatic as it sounds, I've alwas wanted to say this; time is working against us. It's a race as to which will reach sucess first. Will atheism either be accepted for its own sake or because of numbers? Or will intolerance spread to the point of some kind of evisceration (not sure wether it is literal or figurative)?

This scares me. Not like a horror movie, and they scare me bad, but profoundly, it scares me.  Like in the old days, the Mason-Dixxon line is being drawn, and it is up to those parties to decide what this omen precludes.

As for declaring yourself an atheist, I only recently discovered how many atheists there are in my town. I thought there was only a couple (small town; more churches than people) but just recently I've been hearing there are more than I thought.

I went to the link, and saw one of the responses. It made me smile.

" I'm sorry, what did you expect? For Dinesh to come to his blog and say 'Well darn, I went to go debate those atheists but I just couldn't do it. They just had a few points I couldn't shake and were really on the ball. Too bad god didn't help me have a more convincing argument.' Right. Time to open a ski resort in hell if that ever happens.

Of course the atheists he praises he calls provincial and quaint. Oh, dead wrong, but weren't they so nice to point out that non-theistic regimes rife in autocratic and totalitarian principles killed people to! They didn't hold us to the fact that we killed people on no more substantial evidence than they float in a lake.

You think that's atheist bashing? Try the dark ages and the middle ages, where being an atheist, agnostic, deist, or otherwise 'non-believer' gave the church the right to kill you. Now that's atheist bashing. You, mr. dinesh, were speaking words. Were polls given before these debates? Were more given afterwards, where people could say if they changed their minds or not? I'd like to see the data, if you please.

Because no amount of debate or chest thumping and crowing victory is going to convince me. You, as every single theist before and after you, have yet to present to me a single conclusive bit of tangible evidence to your claim that there is a god, let alone a christian god filled with hypocracies and viciousness. If God wanted me to believe in him then he could do so by presenting a natural phenomenon that clearly violates the laws of the universe. He seemed so pleased to have angels appear with burning bushes in the past but he seems woefully mum now that people have the ability and the protection to question his existance.

If I were God, I could do so much better."

It's nice to see someone still has a functioning frontal lobe.

It's definitely rethoric like Dinesh's that keeps American atheists on the defensive. Sooo, where can I look at those debates he so confidently talks about? I'd really like to see them and, as he proposes, form my own opinion on them.

^^^^^^

I too would like to see those debates. I had to laugh when he writes:

"Many churches are already showing these debates in order to educate and instruct believers. I wonder if atheist groups will have the confidence to air them at their conferences."

The difference---the atheists would watch the entire debate, not concerned about any particular piece being seen or heard...I could only imagine the cut and paste job those churches would do for parts of the debate they couldn't explain to their flock...

 - Is it really indicative of what the "Theists" are up to? I think it's more of an opportunity for you to paint the opposition with a broad brush without having to put much work into it, just like the author of the article in question.

Attributing a physical threat is laughable; the word "bashing" is not commonly used to describe physical assault; gay bashing is used to describe critics of sam sex marriage, bush bashing is used to describe harsh criticisms of the Bush administration, etc. 

Right on, Kelly!

Will! I can't believe you lied to your friend. Didn't you tell him being an Atheist requires you to wear a blue shirt and take a picture with a sad face as your avatar. I mean its right up there with being a Dawkins Junkie. Speak the truth to your deconverts man!

Kelly, this was an excellent article, thanks for pointing this our way. I have said it before, DD, is the most dishonestly visible apologetic out there today. He is very much a discriminatory hack, and we must not take this anymore. His portrayal of Dawkins of being caught with his pants down by Ben Stein, and being terrified to debate him is absurd. Dawkins has said he won't debate people that flat out lie, which is the main trick in Dinesh's bag. I have seen the Hitchens, Shermer, and Barker debates, but will have to check out the others.
 

I think Atheists have to take on people like DD and expose them for what they are...outright liars, apologizing for nonexistent deities while using sleight of hand political tricks to never address the points they can't refute. It seriously angers me to watch him debate, get asked a question, say a few things that don't relate to the question, then turn it around to the questioner and ask him a question, without having addressed the question in the first place. In this sense, the guy is a freaking Karl Rovian genius, and to his credit, this tactic works. His intelligence and command of language really do seem to bridge the gap of his lack of good argumentation points(or any evidence and logic for that matter). I see these things as muddying up the water, kind of like the "teach the controversy" campaign. They know their arguments hold no water, but they are able to raise doubt in the mind of the audience, by attacking acts by Atheists or falsely misrepresenting the facts and beliefs of Atheists.

rant ends

At least I can look forward to Pinker debating, he seems so mild-mannered, I hope DD doesn't bulldoze him over with lies. Perhaps his poodle wig will be Dinesh's kryptonite.

I often think that the debate between atheist and theist is not really be about whether god exists.  The atheist side is concerned with whether god is imaginary or not.  The theist side often seems to be about why atheists don't want there to be a god.

Guys like Dinesh want there to be a god so badly they defend their beliefs despite any logical rational argument.  For many people like Dinesh god just has to exist because their worldview can't accept that humans are a product of Nature (evolution) and that humanity is not part of some amazingly complex hidden plan.  They need a great dramatic story involving a great deity with a great hidden agenda to explain it.

In spite of the debate, I feel that theists and atheists have pretty much the same goals.  We all want to feed the hungry, end all war, and relieve human suffering throughout the world.  Atheists want to actually figure out a plan on how to allocate resources to it rather than rely on wishful thinking and prayer.  Atheists don't blame sin on the misfortune of those who have AIDS or who are born in poverty. The blame goes to apathy. The same apathy that a jackass like Dinesh has for his fellow men and women who don't believe in his imaginary deity.

If christianity was real then Jesus Christ would defend his believers surely?

If christianity is false then we have nothing to worry about - let people be brainwashed - most of the world has been brainwashed since the beginning of time and most of the world still is.

We must stand together because we are a minority.

Not that you don't have a valid point about the double standard, Kelly, as that title is just another reflection of the fact that we're a group to whom it is still considered by many in the mainstream to discriminate or hurl invective, but I notice that the content of D'Souza's article isn't about "bashing atheists", and itseems like that title was chosen more to draw attention to the article.

I'm more interested in the fact that he asserts that Richard Dawkins was "caught by Ben Stein with his pants down", something that never occurred, as Stein and the creators of Expelled lied to Dawkins and the other evolutionist interviewees about the angle of their film, and distorted the truth of its content. 

Good luck with that. D'Souza is a master of the Bill O'Reilley school of "weasel-word and fine print" argument. If Bill's covering a demonstration that he doesn't agree with, it's "your little demonstration," or "a small group of misguided individuals." Weasel away. Later in the interveiw, Bill is guaranteed to say "most people don't agree with you, but let's move on to another question." That's the fine print bomb. 

The Hitchens vs. D'Souza debate shows D'Souza demonstrating the use of both techniques. I'd love it if someone debating him would point out both before beginning, just to see what effect it would have on him. "So ... how many fine print bombs did you guys count? Weasel words? There will be prizes after."

This situation reminds me of an idiotic opinion piece that was published in Virginia Tech's school newspaper, the Collegiate Times:

http://www.collegiatetimes.com/stories/2008/03/25/column__defending_morality_in_an_athiest_s_culture_is_challenging

I had to respond with similar sentiments as Kelly's:

http://www.collegiatetimes.com/stories/2008/03/27/letter__column_lacked_tolerance

It's amazing how some people "think".

I agree, and I can't stand Dinesh. But I find it ironic that you don't see the double standard.  You may not encourage "bashing week", but you go around saying all theists belong in mental institutions (you lump them all together), you go around saying they're all retarded, and you encourage people to ridicule anyone who believes in anything no matter what other qualities that person has, and you support artists who sing songs about being violent toward them.  You may not encourage violence, but you act very immaturely and you do encourage ostracism, ridicule, divisiveness, and scorn, and not just toward theists either.  Any freethinkers that dare disagree with your tactics or even try to criticize, get cussed at and labeled all kinds of wonderful names and qualities too-with their names fully and publicly exposed on your website, or it's said they must be "theists in disguise" (watch, I'm going to get labeled that just for posting this). When confronted about it, you claim it's "just to get people's attention".  Umm, isn't that what Dinesh is doing with his article as well?  Let's not forget how you frequently threaten to ban and sue anyone who says anything about you that you don't like.

It's time you realized you often don't sound much better than him, unfortunately. 

I remember asking my dad if he was an Atheist and he looked totally shocked that I would ask such a thing. He has always said, "If I can't see it or perceive it with my senses then it isn't real to me" - "I see no evidence of any kind of God" - "What is in nature is real, that's all" - so you would think he would have said "yes" to my question.  My friend Steve would never go to a church, would never look at a bible, koran or moonie book. He has said "none of them are any less crazy than Scientology and Xenu" - Yet when I asked him if he were an Atheist he got annoyed at me too... like I was trying to put him in a "club" after he just got through telling me he hates clubs! 

My friend Chris says, "I'm an Atheist... " but only to his close friends... to others he "doesn't want to make them uncomfortable.  After studying all the internet stuff on atheism, I have come to find that I am a weak atheist... I don't much care for the topic, I don't know the mysterious answers, I don't fill the gaps with a god, I'm comfortable with the mystery and will gladly believe in a deity when there is proof in the natural world.  "I'll believe it when I see it ... now let's study science"-

But listen to that term "weak atheist"... ugh.  That's not sexy at all. I'm the weak version of someone who has a lack of a belief in something. Eww.

The official numbers place American with a combined atheist and agnostic population at about 10% (in 2004). But I'll bet if you added in everyone like dad, Steve, and Chris... it would be like 30% - which makes me wonder.  Is the way to more power and respect to all declare ourselves? So many would never do it because to them the word means "in a club of people who agree on the topic of a deity" - and they reject the world roundly.

We can either do that, or we can use terms anyone can get along with that sound like SOMETHING.  "People Who Have No Desire To Practice Religion" - "Real Worldians" - "Rational Thinkers" - "The Anti and Non RELIGIOUS" - I guess what I am saying is that when I encourage my friends & family to smack Dinesh D'Souza for dissing us - I am torn between nudging them to relate to the very accurate world "Atheist" and to changing MY WORDS to include them where they already perceive themselves to be now.

"Hey dad, Dinesh D'Souza says if you don't believe in scripture and a personal god, people should "bash" you... what do you think about that?"

dad, "I don't care son... I never think about that stuff"

30% and climbing!

- Corporations_Ate_My_Baby

[ www.myspace.com/reregulation

Oh, purleaze can we have a Dinesh D'Suzy-Bashing Week? It'd be such fun.

And no need for metaphors and bon mots - just good old-fashioned thumps with heavy things. Sometimes the intellectual approach just fails to satisfy the viscera. There are many ways to vent a spleen, but few as direct as a sharp instrument just to the left of the pancreas.

I feel better already, just contemplating it...

CD

Sarcasm like that is understandable, but do always keep in mind that there are nuts who would falsely take such things seriously.

Did everyone know D'Souza used to date Ann Coulter. I couldn't ask for a better hell.

Good stuff Kelly, as usual!

Yeah!  The world needs to lighten up.  We all gotta believe in something.  I believe in the car count from my corner.  The more cars I count, the better the take.  It's all about the numbers.  You tell enough people what you believe and someone will toss you coin in support of your cause.  Keep up the good work!

Holly Fawder

notables.weebly.com

That's very funny acctualy, when I think vile i think aol, it was no surprise that Dinesh columns appear there. All those years of the dial tone I suppose have done their damage.

The one you mentioned I did see, but there was a different one that cought my eye, the title was something like "Atheism and Child Murder" take a gander at who wrote that gem.

Here is the link enjoy
http://news.aol.com/newsbloggers/2008/05/09/atheism-and-child-murder/

I got sidetracked and started watching the debate between him and Peter Singer and after hearing where Dinesh stood on these issues I didn't bother to finish the article. I think my favorite part are his jokes which he repeats in every debate, if you can stomach watching more than one.

To lighten the load http://www.crooksandliars.com/Media/Play/13613/2/Colbert-DSouza.mov/

I'll start off by stating that I am a 31 year old married Christian and father of two.  I am also a youth minister.  I was reading the FoxNews story on this guy who built an Ark in the Netherlands.  I did a search and found this site and the blog associated with the story.

I read it and was offended (of course) but not really because it down-played all Christians as stupid idiots that believe in fairy tales and cause hate-mongering.....but because you believe that all Christians are this way.

Of course in our world today we have pretenders, hi-jackers of religion...whatever.  But I do firmly believe in the gospel of Christ....I do not personally shove it down a non-believers throat.  I also don't judge you if you decide to not believe.  I have read the Bible throughout and I am certain that there are many areas that you could argue with me and state your case obviously.  And there is no doubt that you might find me speechless without explanation at times, but that point of view falls in the very same hatred that you are so tired of receiving from "so-called-Christians".  Over the years, somewhere in your life, I would bet that a Christian or a church has offended you and probably acted in a very hipocritical way.  I sincerely apologize for that. 

I would only hope that you know that there are people in this world that have a different perspective on life and death and we do not use hatred and hate-mongering to change everyone around us.  The Bible itself is misused in many ways.  Groups of 'Christians' have taken it as a reason to condemn others, judge others, hate others for contradicting it.  My belief is very simple.  Jesus commanded all to love each other as we would like to be loved.  We were never instructed to hate, judge or condemn.  So when you are directing your hate-mongering of Christians, and being so quick to judge us as stupid or ignorant in our beliefs....just be careful that your preaching of atheism doesn't fall in the category of hipocritical.  Because a person has no room to complain about bitter judgemental Christians if that person is a bitter judgemental Atheist.  Take the high road and be a happy atheist??  I won't stand in your way.

Also, I enjoyed reading your blog posts.  I didn't convert, lol, but I like the different points of view.  I just don't understand the trading of one hatred for another?

With Love,

Mark

So what does a True Scotsman look like?

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Deuteronomy 13:6-10

f thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

hou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him

But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

Ya I have no idea where other christians get those ideas.

I am thanks.

  

Which hatred would that be?

I am glad that you enjoyed the different points of view and got some enjoyable reading from this site.

The vast majority here don't hate christians, we dislike (some hate) religion, including christianity. There is a big difference. The anger you may have picked up on is generally aimed at individuals or oranizations who have said or done things to offend.

We don't believe christians are all stupid either. (note - when I say "we" I am generalizing, we are all individuals who can believe what we want, there is no dogma here) Religion is a delusion disorder, this means that a person can be highly intelligent and rational, apart from when it comes to their religion. We all have religious friends and relatives who we coexist with just fine.

Most of us are happy atheists. If religion stopped interfering in peoples lives I'm sure we would stop poking sticks at it.

We are not hate-mongering just having discussions (although some threads get more heated than others, as with many discussions). There are many threads where some very gentle discussions with christians have been happening.

Please don't be so quick to judge us.

If you can really lead a religious life without the religion filling your head with bias, judgement, intollerance, ignorance and irrationality good luck to you. I hope you raise your children to be questioning, rational thinkers and not to blindly believe what they are told.

Take care.

I don't think I need to say anything else really.

"We are never instructed to hate"

Mark, I suggest you actually read the gospel:

Jesus: Luke 14:26: "If any man come to me and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

Jesus: Luke 22: 51-53: 'Suppose ye I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you nay, but rather division; for from henceforth there shall be five in one hose divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father, the mother against the daughter...' etc...

Jesus: Matthew 10: 35-36: 'For I am come to set a man against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against the mother in law. And a man's foes shall be of his own household...'

READ what Jesus says in the Gospel; he speaks of hate, and he tells you: "The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage; but they which shall be accounted WORTHY to obtain that world (God's kingdom) and the resurrection from the dead, NEITHER THEY MARRY NOR ARE GIVEN IN MARRIAGE...

so, if you Christians want to be a true disciple of christ, you must hate your own family members, because YOUR GOD SAID SO, and you must not marry. Any married christian will not attain God's Kingdom.

Jesus insulted his own mother; "Woman, what have I to do with thee?" He didn't even have the decency to call her 'mother' because he himself had disowned his own family.

and this: "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth. I came to not send peace, but a sword."

"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and BUY ONE..." so much for the prince of peace...Matthew 10: 34

Jesus in Revelation 2: 23 (KJV)..."And I will kill her children with death..."

Jesus said, Sell everything and give it to the poor...

Jesus said not to shore up wealth in this world.

Do you have life savings? 

Jesus said, Call no man father, and no man rabbi...

Do you call your priest, Father?

And neither do I, as an atheist, ever preach hate towards believers. I do not accept either, the same old same old excuse of 'hi-jacking' religion. This is just another of the many worn out excuses believers use when their religions are caught out being vicious, narrow minded, ignorant, bigoted and violent. Oh, it wasn't really us, it was these faceless and unknown 'hi-jackers'.

REAL Christians, my friend, hate their families, friends, and neighbors because Jesus says so.

You are not a true Christian anymore than these unknown 'hi-jackers' are who so easily absolve you of the crimes that religion commits, because next time a supposed atheist commits a crime, I'm going to say atheism was hi-jacked...

What a load of rubbish.

The Bible teaches that hatred is an act of the sinful nature. If Jesus hated or propogated such an act, that would make Him a sinner.

The division in families that Jesus talks about is simply down to some believing and others not. As a Christian, I don't hate anyone because I have the love of God in my heart. Let's not forget John Chapter 3 verse 16 "For God so loved the world....." And that means all of the world including atheists.

There are people out there claiming to be Christians who do seem to propogate hatred. Then you need to ask yourself, are they really Christian? Do I see the love of God in them? The Bible teaches that you will know them by their fruit. There are the fruit of God's spirit and the fruit of the sinful nature. Hatred falls into the latter.

Real Christians don't have any hate in them. Hatred isn't of God.

One final point, you may consider changing you KJV for a more recent translation. The KJV was a translation of a translation and King James laid down very strict rules on what the translators could and couldn't say. He made over 90 changes to the book of Revelation alone.

Modern day translations are from the original Greek and Hebrew and haven't been corrupted in the same way.

Moral of this is.... If you want to know about British history, ask someone who is British. There are other things I could say about King James but perhaps I will refrain at this moment in time.

So I will wish you a great day, firstly in the style of King James, and then in modern day English.

Thou havest thee a day of great favour blessed with many unicorns sayeth I.... (KJV Style)

Have a great day....(Pure simple understandable English)

Jesus sinned in any case.

Luke 6:1-2 And it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and did eat, rubbing them in their hands.

And certain of the Pharisees said unto them, Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath days?

Breaking the sabbath and stealing corn.

John 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.

Healing on the sabbath-still breaking it.

Mark 11:13,20 And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.

And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.

Killing a fig tree because it wasn't in season? Chidish,and he got angry and acted in that anger.Isn't that a sin?

Mark 11:15 And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves;

Lost his temper again,damaging property and whipping people.

I wonder why he didn't just say that instead of saying you have to hate your family.I'm inclined to think you're just trying to cover what you know is a damning verse.

Yes,if I say a christian who killed their children for having other beliefs and shunned nonbelievers,I would think they are really christians.They're just doing what the bible says.

Go read ALL your bible again

That's weird. I was taught at my chrisitian school the bible is the innerant and perfect word of god.Now you're saying it has been corrupted by man.So that means: either the bible is a book like any othere,or god isn't perfect.

You admit a mere mortal man was able to dictate and change the contents of the bible.So either god doesn't care if his message gets messed with,is unable to do anything about it, or doesn't exist.

How do you know the bible you're reading right now isn't corrupted?Maybe what you think is the bible is actually a man altered fabrication.You have admitted god can't protect his word from man.

How do you know.

You too.

A couple of points need clearing up.

Firstly Jesus didn't sin. He was accused of such. He lived by the Spirit and not by the Law.

Secondly I was also taught that the Bible was The Word Of God every single word cover to cover. But where in the Bible does it say that? The answer is it doesn't. What my Bible teaches is that Jesus is The Word Of God. John Chapter 1 and if you take a look in yours, you will see it says the same.

Of course, there is a scripture in 2 Timothy 3 that says all scripture is God breathed so here are a couple of points about that. The word scripture comes from the Latin scriptus which means writings. So according to that verse all writings are God breathed etc. Does that include Richard Dawkin's book then? Does that include anything anybody writes? I don't think so. So Timothy was clearly elevating some writings above others, in other words if the writings teach rebuke correct in righteousness then they are God breathed, inspired given etc. If they don't, they are not it's as simple as that.

The Bible does contain The Word Of God, it also contains the words of unbelievers and the words of Satan. To me, attributing the words of satan to The Word of God is as blasphemous as attributing the miracle working power of God to the work of Satan. Did God inspire Satan's words? No. Did God insphire Herod to plot to kill Jesus. No. I could go on but I won't.

So I believe that the Bible is inspired in the sense that it is everything God would have us to know and I believe that when the canon was compiled it was done so under the unction of the Holy Spirit, but Jesus is The Word Of God, that's what the Bible teaches.

So all of this begs the question, why did my Christian brothers and sisters attribute every word in the Bible to The Word Of God and thus put it on a par with the words that Jesus spoke? I'm not sure what the answer to this is but I do feel that some Christians almost worship their Bibles as it is a tangible item and this is a form of idolatry.

Now you may think that my understanding of The Word Of God as being pretty revolutionary, but I can tell you I am not alone in this. I have been a Christian for 20 years and my 2 colleagues in the Redsky team are saved 32 years each and one is a Reverend with a Batchelors degree in theology and they believe also That Jesus is The Word Of God. And we are not the only ones.

Dare I say it, the Muslims have had it right all the time. They say that Jesus is The Word from God and that His words are The Word Of God.

So finally, I wouldn't take anything away from the Bible, but at the same time I wouldn't credit it all as The Word Of God when The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is The Word.

Hi there....

I've got a feeling that what I am about to do is going to result in me getting a bashing from my Christians brothers to add to any Andrew bashing that my Atheist friends might feel like handing out.

Oh well, here goes....

You were asking me about the KJV. Here's a link to an interesting article written by a friend of mine who has researched the subject in depth.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/malcolmbowden/KJVonly.htm

Does anyone know a good place for me to hide????

In regard to your first post..well that's what you believe about the bible.I've learnt that with christians like you,(not saying that ofensively)arguing the bible isn't going to get far.

I must concede your point that I can't think of anywhere where it says the bible is perfect.I'll be looking though!

It just seems to me that people who make excuses for the bible's problems are kinda saying,'Ya,this is the book by which we know the almighty and perfect creator of the universe.Just ignore the fact that it's boring,horribly violent,mostly useless in today's world,riddled with errors,and largely pointless.' You would just think a all powerful being could do a better job,divenly inspired or not.

Lots of space here with us

I do find this notion of rallying up and retaliating to be a little vengeful and carrying a sense of dogmatic revolt. Very religious. Fundamentalist behavior in any form is irrational and mindless. This website is great for carrying thought forward - but I feel it really shouldn't promote the kinds of behavior subscribed to by people "who want other people to believe what they believe" - and if they don't then they're stupid and irrational. It comes off to me as an unappreciated double standard there. I also discount the notion of referring to atheism as a belief system. All it is is a lacking of a belief system which is great, which is what it really is. If you allowed atheism to become another 'group' another 'identity label' then frankly you're creating a rally that will eventually end up - very likely in the short and long run - in bigotry and discrimination and all the other lovely side effects religion can bring along with it. I'm not saying "Turn the other cheek". I'm saying be confident in what you believe, but don't become exactly what you're opposing. I'm begging for a little foresight.

I must absolutely concur with this - a lot of religious 'humility' encircles such disgusting amounts of pride. I'm not against religious folk or faith - but these power mongers so to speak. It's disgusting really.

I doubt D'Souza was even lightheartedly joking. Feels more like he was testing how much he could say without stirring the beehive. Furthermore, what he jokes about is exactly the kind of thing he usually promotes in debates and writing. D'Souza is full of crap, and if that's his style of humor, that just proves it.

Considering how stupid you have to be to believe in Christianity, I wouldn't throw the word "unteachable" around. You ignore scientific proof and Biblical contradictions and your patience is wearing thin? Ha! For an atheist, you are like a tiny child who talks about Santa Clause or the tooth fairy being 'real'. Do some research on your own religion, you retard. I was raised as a Christian and it is nothing more than overgrown cult of ignorant, self-righteous zealots. At 15 I couldn't ignore the facts anymore and I thank my lucky stars I go out!!

Thank you kellym78, I will refrain from concurring godly blessings on you in respect to your atheism

Let me just express my support for your stance against ALL forms of bashing individuals by ridiculing or assaulting his/her religious, sexual or racial identity.

The replies to your input has been fiendish and misplaced, it reflects upon a deep strain of cowardice to look into what holds people close to the light of Christianity. Bashing women, jews, gays, christians or blacks is inexcusable and we all have to stand up against the injustice.

I follow a very progressive Christian denomination that is built around the ideals of acceptance of peoples of different genders, races and even religions. We accept people of all colours and shapes; including gays and lesbians.

The point is that there are people from all racial, sexual, and religious backgrounds who share progressive thought and support and fight for progressive causes. And I am happy to look at you as someone who stands alongside us against bashing anyone due to their sexual, religious or racial identity.