I think the persecution will never end....even if the whole world was Christian......Pauls words are Godly words....as he was possessed by Gods spook.

Actually, since xians tend to persecute each other when no infidels are around to poke a stick at, you COULD say they are "persecuted"...

Christianity is a religion of victimology and rests on the desire to be (or at least appear to be) the victim. The meek shall inherit the world, indeed.

When dealing with persecution, you have to seperate Christians who clearly act out their faith from those who wear Christianity as sort of a cool accessory to their social life.

Hence, "In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted."

I don't believe the pie chart accounts for that.

You see, I'm a Christian, and this is the first thing I saw on the website, so I gave a brief rebuttle. But now I understand that giving this view might be "moderated".

Everyone needs a cause. They provide meaning for us - - in this case, by imposing meaning on a meaningless world.

I've never understood this one thing: if everything in life is meaningless, why should my philosophy be meaningful?

Goodbye,

Jon

There are plenty more useful things you can live your life for than devotion to the make believe.

For instance, some people are inclined to become policemen and firefighters and doctors to help other people.
Others become scientists and develop medicines to increase life expectancy and ease suffering.
Still others become engineers and build things to make life easier for other people.

All these are excellent reasons for living, and they all focus around one central point:

Life's goal should be to make other peoples lives easier.

Religion is the only thing you can devote your life to that does not make other peoples lives easier. Religion creates suffering and war, promotes out-group violence and segregation, and even imposes death and "hell" onto those whos belief systems are only slightly different.

It is Christians who insist that the only thing which matters is our destination in the afterlife. Apparently, they are the ones that feel everything in this life is meaningless. It is likewise Christians, not atheists, who insist that nothing can have meaning unless that meaning is donated by an invisible sky daddy. Remove that big 'ole question-begging assumption and you are free to assign all the meaning you want to whatever you want. Including your own arguments which are not, I bet, anymore blessed by God than mine.

see but thats the point of Christianity, it's not to cause all of those things but if you actually studied Christianity and the beliefs, you would learn and see that Christianity is about love and having life after death not causing war and havoc... It's our enemy, the devil/Satan, that causes all of this and tries to only get you to see  the war that is created but never the good things that happen like the peace that people have when they truly have found the lord. I would encourage you to find out more about a religion before you judge the book by it's cover when sometimes people just put a book cover of another book on top. God loves you and always will and you will always know where to find him because he is ALWAYS with you as your father in Heaven!

good for you! keep with the faith it will get you everywhere and then some of where you are supposed to go in life. In the end, God will reward both of us for standing up for what we believe in and him and none of this will matter anymore but we took a stand and let people know of what they could have and what makes us so happy and life loving. God bless you and keep you!

Your Sister in Christ Danae

Such wasted potential.

Yes, Yes. The "make-believe." I can see you looking down your nose at anyone who has any sense of the spiritual, and you know what? That's okay. There have been many great things that have been accomplished throughout the centuries, however that have been done in the name of "make believe" upon which Western civilization has been founded and developed. And then your response would be something along the lines of "what about this one time when Xians did this..." And most likely this would point out the Crusades or something similar and compare it to radical Islam. And you would conclude that religion makes people crazy and hateful. Trust me, I've heard it before. I am actually a scholar on the Crusades and am pursuing a degree in Medieval studies, so I have had to address over and again with myself and others. While the Crusades on the surface are appalling, I have to chalk that up to human nature with religion only as a context or excuse. In my study of history I find that even though the concept of the secular State has only been around for a couple hundred years, there have still been wars and atrocities that have come along with it. Especially after the 20th century, more people have died in the last 100 years in the name of nationalism than in the previous 500 in the name of religion. Also, violence in the name of Christianity never threatened human existence on earth (Cold War, anyone?)

I always find it funny that hard-core atheists see the world in the same dichotomy as religious fundamentalists. Unfortunately, if you are really a committed atheist, then I have to say that you yourself wallow in ignorance. Yes, the same ignorance of those with unquestioning faith. Oh the audacity! I know, I know. I am such an ignorant a-hole, right? God forbid (did he just say God? Oh no he did NOT,) anyway, Allah forbid, Flying Spaghetti Monster forbid, etc etc, that someone disagree with your world view. You are already thumbing your nose at me and probably wont take anything in this post seriously. I mean, who do I think I am?

But seriously though, from a philosophical standpoint, even from a scientific standpoint, atheism in its truest sense implies ignorance. Can a scientist ever fully discount something? Not if that scientist is a strict adherent to the scientific method. There is always the possibility of something undiscovered, whether that be God, a cure for disease, an New Unified Theory, etc.

So at this point you're angry. Don't hate me! Notice that at no point I have not declared my own personal beliefs (or lack thereof.) I just enjoy a good argument on this subject. My point is this: it is detrimental to approach this subject with the disdain that is all too commonly brought from both sides to this debate. Remember that people have been asking these questions for thousands of years, if not more (I am a little fuzzy in religion and politics in the pre-Neolithic world.) You can't point out the bad things so-called "Christians" if you don't alternatively recognize the bad things carried out under the banner of the State and nationalism (the French Revolution and the subsequent Reign of Terror, both World Wars, colonialism, the list goes on...)

Oh, and religion can make people's lives easier. I think Marx referred to it as an "opiate for the masses," a kind of coping mechanism. And then you have to take into account charitable missions, relief services, service trips, etc.

So go ahead, dismiss my words. Call me names. I must be a hardcore Christian, right. My head is full of fantastical stories of magic and wonder because I am not rational enough to think for myself. *Yawn* You sure have got me pegged, although in reality you would be wrong (I have addressed this as a response to AdamKatze and his Christianity=ignorance post, but it's really an open letter.) I personally just love a good debate, if this at all a debate to anyone and not simply a bashing session to reinforce one's own belief system. That just sounds pseudo-religious! My whole point is that I am afraid much of atheist talking points, like those displayed in his/her post, reflect the same closed-mindedness as religious fundamentalists.

And yes, it's over a year later. I just stumbled onto this and couldn't resist.

Rather quick to the assumptions there.

More "horrible" things have been accomplished through religion than "great" things. On a scale of perhaps 10/1.

As if there was any real difference at all between one radical religion and another.

It certainly can. It does not by default.

Yeah, cause it wasn't really religion that was the focus of the crusades, it was the expansion of...oh...wait....a religion. And it was being fought against by....oh...wait. A religion.

Never mind.

Noone intelligent is going to suggest that war will end with religion. It will just get less common.

Nationalism is as bad as religion, and they share some very significant traits. That you recognize the dangers of nationalism gives me hope that you can fight your way through the lies of religion as well.

I do notice that you specifically refer to christianity here, as if you believe that other religions have threatened the Earth. Care to be more specific, so I or someone else can show you how christians are as guilty as the rest of them?

Ridiculous and unsupported.

And you have nothing to base this on, so it can be thrown back in your face.

It would really be nice if people actually educated themselves on the reality of atheism before blindly swinging at shadows. But that's too much to ask for apparently.

Impossible. All you've accomplished is proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that you don't know what atheism means.

And most of us don't discount the possibility of "a" god. We just know that most invented gods are pure bullshit. We've torn them apart beyond repair. There has yet to exist someone who proposes a god with logic and science. The very term "god" is logically incoherant. You'll have to redefine it in a way that it is not. I suspect you'll get a Nobel Prize for doing so. Good luck!

Annoyed, yes. Angry, no. You should stop projecting on us. It's simply going to create a self fullfilling prophecy, where you literally piss off everyone you talk to. All while pretending that you aren't trying to piss us off.

Gramatically incoherant. I suggest you look up the concept of a double negative, and try this again.

Only if one is approaching someone capable of conversing on a higher level of discourse. Most theists are not capable of such. Worse, the vast majority of theists approach the subject on an auto-pilot of disdain. That would be why they get it in return. You're preaching to the wrong side here.

So we do both, and recognize the dangers in both, relegating a significant portion of your argument into nothingness.

So you're in favour of drugging the populace into submission?

And you haven't noticed that government is now the leading authority in charity, not religion?

Tsk tsk.

More projection....

You seem to be a christian, thanks to a slip you made above. But I'm not yet 100% certain of this. 

You haven't demonstrated one way or the other yet. 

I am not familiar with what you're referring to. I'm also not sure I have a reason to be.

We'll see how it goes. So far you have not impressed me with your open-mindedness. Your post is full of ad-hominems and baseless attacks as well as strawman positions on what atheism is. I really recommend you educate yourself before trying to debate this. Your current demonstrated skills leave much to be desired.

 if you (all) think Christians are so dumb, or that god doesn't exist, i challenge you to a battle of reason.  I bet that i can prove that God, and i mean Yahweh, not just any god, exists (no henotheism here.).   And I can prove that Jesus Christ is in fact the Messiah.

 wow. you really don't now what you're talking about. I don't mean that in a mean way, but many people seem to think that if your a christian, thats all you are. email me for an interesting conversation.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence!! Where's your proof? In some book of mythology? There is no heaven and there is no hell. Snakes don't talk. Burning shrubs do not talk. You can't put 2 of everything on an ark when everything was not yet discovered. It is so ridiculous. Bottom line: we are to blame for our own actions and to take credit for our own achievements. We are to help each other make this a better place with less 'holier than thou' bullshit. I could say that I could not have done it without Santa Claus since he is about as believable as the stuff that religions are preaching. I have been alive long enough to see that the Golden rule does not apply to the religious fanatics in their minds. There has been a movement to include religion in government so that we may return to the dark ages. Time for the people who 'get it' to start to be heard and put a stop to the insanity. I agree with Bill Maher that religious fanatacism is a brain disorder. Prove it isn't.

Than PLEASE do so! If you could do all that, you'd have done it by now.

             I think the pie graph is a little off.With over one BILLION followers

             around the globe, I think Islam is the most populous religion.AND

             the most guilty of crying "we're oppressed". Here's the news; Atheist

              or Jew or Christian,when the sword of Allah comes a -swingin,ALL non-                     

              Muslims will either convert,become dhimmi,or DIE. So I suggest the atheists

              widen their field and start debunking Islam with the same unbridled ferocity that

              they do Christians.Or  are you scared they might find you and kill you,instead of

               just praying to the air for your soul?  You want to fight ,pick an opponent with some teeth,not a bunch

              of Jesus freak flower children. I dare you.

Bill Maher IS a religious fanatic. He thinks Barack Obama is the Messiah!!?!!

" if you (all) think Christians are so dumb, or that god doesn't exist, i challenge you to a battle of reason.  I bet that i can prove that God, and i mean Yahweh, not just any god, exists (no henotheism here.).   And I can prove that Jesus Christ is in fact the Messiah."

You're delusional. If you were capable of proving god, you'd be rich and famous instead of sneaking onto the nurses computer during their rounds.

" I think the pie graph is a little off."

Not at all. It's a pretty accurate representation of the US.

"With over one BILLION followers around the globe, I think Islam is the most populous religion.AND the most guilty of crying "we're oppressed"."

Feel free to make a chart representative of Earth then.

"Here's the news; Atheist or Jew or Christian,when the sword of Allah comes a -swingin,ALL non-Muslims will either convert,become dhimmi,or DIE."

You'll forgive me for not taking seriously an enemy who gets raped any time they encounter organised resistance. They haven't a chance.

"So I suggest the atheists widen their field and start debunking Islam with the same unbridled ferocity that they do Christians."

It's hard to attack someone who doesn't have the balls to show up for a fight, but we ridicule them anyway.

"Or  are you scared they might find you and kill you,instead of just praying to the air for your soul?"

Laughable.

"You want to fight ,pick an opponent with some teeth,not a bunch of Jesus freak flower children. I dare you."

Flower children? Try terrorists, murderers, and cultists.

The pie chart represents the religious distribution of America, not the world. 

I agree actually. Out of all the religions, I consider Islam to be the most dangerous to humanity. Scientology would be second place if it was bigger. Christianity is powerful, but more moderate and secularized.

This site is based in the United States. Atheists in the United States focus on Christianity because this is the dominant religion in this part of the world. 

Dare me to do what? Islam is bullshit.

Good enough?

Anytime, anyplace, goat-people.

If life meant nothing to you 1 billion years ago, what makes you think it will mean anything 1 billion years from now?

It is not your "philosophy" that is meaningful, it is the meaning you apply yourself to ANYTHING in life, to your own life.

There is no magic to life, good or bad. Carbon based life forms biological "meaning" is to get to the point of replication. But at some point all life will end on this planet, via meteor or the sun expanding or the ecological balance going beyond sustaining biological life.

It is nothing to be scared of anymore than peeing or pooing is scary. It just is and there is no magical super hero involved in it. So all WE as humans can do is make a "meaning" for ourselves now.

You falsely think we pick solely on Christianity, because that is what we mainly run into. But please understand we are being fair.

Past or present, monotheist or polytheist, the "god(s)" concept claimed in human history are ABSURD, by any name. What you have to swallow is the claim that a thinking brain, invisible with no material, no brain, no neurons, no cerebellum, floats around in the sky, everywhere and nowhere at the same time, with magical super powers interfering with the lives of humans.

The Ancient Egyptians FALSELY believed that the sun was a magical super hero with a brain that interfered with the lives of humans favoring the Egyptians over all others.

The details are different but the motif of all god claims is the same. "My super hero will save my people and vanquish the villian and swoop me off the tracks".

Don't be silly and falsely think we are putting your myth on a pedestal.  It takes TWO sets of DNA to manifest into a zygote and then onto a baby. Human flesh DOES NOT survive rigor mortis. But if it makes you feel better, we also reject claims of magical harems and rivers of milk and wine. We reject "karma" and Ouija boards and vampires and Big Foot.

You have no more evidence for your super hero than the Egyptians had for Ra(the sun god).

Your claim of a magical, invisible, immaterial super brain, with no brain, no neurons, no cerebellum, no body, is just as absurd a claim as Thor, or Apollo, or Vishnu or Allah. You merely have a different name for your invisible fictional super hero.

So be our guest, we love a challenge and we love to be proven wrong? Come up with god sperm, and go find 3 day old dead body from a morgue and get it to reconstitute itself, get it AMA, University, peer reviewed by independent sources who can replicate and falsify your model, then you will have something.

I am sure Muslims are capable of finding as much evidence for Allah as the Ancient Egyptians had for their gods, and I am sure you will find as much evidence as they did. Making crap up and falsely believing it as fact is only evidence of your own willful credulity. Unfortunately, this placebo false positive is not special to Christianity or the human species. Our species has always been capable of vivid imagination, and you falsely think you are special and different.

Hey, Christianity is not a religion but a lifestyle. I also think that the persecution will end eventually because Jesus Christ is coming back to fix everything. I am a Christian also and I know that God is in control of all this. To those of you who are not believers, has your god answered "all" your prayers? Did he create the universe, and did he exist before time? The only truth I have seen in other religions, is none. They don't have the power to back up what they say and they don't have the scripture to do it. On the other hand, God gave His Children a love letter written to us from Him. That is the Bible and it is 100% true! Holy Holy Holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come!

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion

Christianity unambiguously fits definitions 1.b, 2, and 4.

We don't believe in any god or gods.

We don't believe in any god. There is no "he."

We are not religious.

Truth is what conforms to reality. All religions contains truth to the extent that they conform to reality.

Truth is not dictated by power.

Scripture is just religious writing. Scripture does not determine reality. It can only conform to reality.

That's what you believe.

We don't agree with what you believe.  

 You KNOW ? Knowledge is not faith. Faith is putting a belief into something that can not be conclusively proven. Even the Bible says that when it uses the often repeated verse : Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. So for you to say that you KNOW, would imply that you have more information than your fellow Christians. How do you KNOW ? Do you have some evidence for us to look at ?

 In the days when I was a believer, sometimes my wishful thinking worked out in my favor and sometimes it did not. It seemed more of a luck of the draw and chance than any actual thing answering my prayers. What is prayer anyway ? Asking some invisible force to alter the laws of physics and bend reality to do something specifically for you ? There are 7 BILLION people on this planet. What makes you think god is listening to yours over theirs ?

The belief that a magic invisible man of unknown origin living in the sky created everything out of nothing, using materials that did not exist. I don't think so.

How many religions have you studied ? Since all religions are based upon a belief in something that can not be proven, why should I give yours any special credence over all of the rest of them ? Power to back up what they say ? You mean theocracies like Iraq and Iran ?

An unprovable assertion on your part. There is no evidence to support the Bible is anything other than a collection of superstitious scriptures written by a bunch of pre-historic men.