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god rules wrote:
I don't personally have the knowledge @ this time to debate you guys but i know someone who does. Would any of you administrators or owners of this organization consider going on the Bob Dutko Show to debate Christianity vs. Atheism? Would you be willing to stand up 4 your beliefs in debating the BEST! Confronting wishy washy Christians does not merit any credibility to your stance on atheism. Arguing your position with someone intelligent who knows the word of God does. His show is on wmuz.com out of detroit. He has the largest Christian audience in the country. Your thoughts.
Kelly was already on Bob Dutko. He was extremely dishonest in how he set up the discussion. He purposefully ambushed her on topics of thermodynamics when we specifically stated in the preinterview that our science expert was Mike Yellow #5. During the interview she stated her expertise was not science, but philosophy and psychology... she did so several times. Each time he continued to force issues of thermodynamics that she specifically stated were not her area of expertise and then claimed victory in that she wasn't informed of the topic. If you happen to see the dishonest twat bag, feel free to spit in his face for us.
He hasn't accepted or returned the email to receive an appearance on our show. Dishonest pussy is all I can say for him.
In addition our RRS partner Brian Flemming was on Dutko twice.
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simple theist wrote:It's almost funny to read the claims of people like this. As always, I will deal specifically with the facts and leave the insults and name calling to the other side. Here are some facts for you.
1) There was no "pre-interview" and definitely no "ambush".
2) When the on-air interview started, she specifically said she was disappointed with the Ray Comfort debate because ....(her words) "I was really hoping to talk science". I then said to her "great, I won't talk faith or Bible at all, how about we just talk science?" and she said "that'd be great" (so much for "ambush"
3) It wasn't until she started losing the debate so miserably that she started complaining about not being and "expert" on science, after which I reminded her that SHE was the one who first said she preferred a discussion on science.
4) She was the one who attempted to make scientific claims about possible origins of the universe. She just didn't like the fact that I was able to explain how the Laws of Thermodynamics made her suggestions scientifically impossible. When a debater has a scientific answer for your scientific hypothesis, you can't whine and cry "ambush".
5) I have never received an e-mail from them asking me to appear on their show, nor have I ever received any kind of invitation in any communication format of any kind.
6) As for my not having the "guts" for tough debates, I have debated Dr. Michael Shermer (very skilled national atheist debater), the Publisher of Skeptics magazine multiple times, American Atheists, The Infidel Guy, evolutionary scientists, etc. Just last month I debated the well respected atheist Astrophysicist Dr. Victor Stenger (Ph.D.-Physics) and author of "God: The Failed Hypothesis", in which he attempts to prove there is no God according to science, physics and cosmology. I could go on and on obviously, but I thought I would at least give you a factual response to my supposed lack of "guts" to debate some guy from an atheist website. (If you're wondering if my eyes are rolling, yes they are)
Take care and God bless, Bob
TO SIMPLE THEIST AND SAPIEN;
I emailed Bob about this thread and sent him Sapiens comments. This was his INTELLIGENT response, NOTICE he did it without any name calling or insults, just facts.
I guess this is the kind of reaction you get when you confront Atheists with the truth. They move your thread, maybe hoping out of sight out of mind. How unfortunate they don't realize that the truth sets you free.
Guess so. We're pretty much jerks. Go tell your magic dad that you really got us this time, and that your Club Awesome knows the real truth. A radio debate is pretty much the best arbiter of truth available anyway.
Are you serious? You figure you took on one representative of a group in an argument and that settles what the truth is? Are you high?
Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence
Funny, what I'm reading seems a lot more like a Christian who has no problems misinforming one of his sycophants (Are you sure he's not a Reverend?).
As for his guts in debate, I'll hold judgment on that until he accepts the RRS offer.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Ah, a classic cover for cowardice - the "I don't take you seriously enough to engage you in debate (unless it's on my terms and when I have control of the microphone)".
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
I'm not Will but you're asking two different questions here (and both require lengthy answers to be answered fully and properly). Which question would like answered first?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Has Dutko appeared on Skepticality podcasts or in the magazine? The RRS went into Dutko's lion's den. Why doesn't your boy return the favor?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Ever read any Karl Popper? I tend to side with Popper's falsifiable framework for evaluating propositions.
Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence
Hey, I'll answer a question "fully and properly" when warranted, but the question "what is truth?" needs violins in the background. I actually just said, "are you kidding me?" out loud to my computer.
I'm going out for a walk.
Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence
I'll admit, you've peaked my interest. Tell me, is there a place I can go and download this show so I can hear for myself the events that took place or am I doomed to hearsay?
With point number 2, I understand that to mean she was really hoping to talk science in the ray comfort debate. That was the topic of the current conversation by your own admission. That phrase doesn't necessarily mean she's talking about the current show. From what little input I have, I can easily see how this could have been an ambush in itself and now both yourself and the interviewer are just cherry picking to say it wasn't (note: this is not an accusation, it's a hypothetical scenario due to not having heard for myself).
Point number 4 only makes sense in a closed system which the universe is not.
The other points I skipped over due to only having hearsay on those issues so anything I could say in response would be baseless.
Organised religion is the ultimate form of blasphemy.
Censored and blacked out for internet access in ANZ!
AU: http://nocleanfeed.com/ | NZ: http://nzblackout.org/
You know, there is one ultimate truth in the universe. When you just grab everything from the previous post and quote it, and then the next guy after you does the same thing, and then the next guy after him does the same thing, you end up with 3/4 of the vertical space on the page being not only wasted, but really nasty to look at.
Could everyone take the extra 2 seconds to just copy and paste what you are actually responding to?
mmmmkay?
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
The "fully and properly" was for my benefit. Somebody wants an answer to those type of questions from me, they'd best be ready for gory detail. That'll teach them to never do that to me again.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Haha - that's what I figured. I'd rather they look it up. I hope godrules is off reading Karl Popper, 'cause that's some good shit.
Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence
Read Strobel (Case for Christ, Case for Faith). Good apologist, light on argumentation (only interviews those who agree with his views while masquerading as an investigative reporter).
Can't speak for Will.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
What's the point of bringing this up? This was almost a year ago. Just for the record, I do feel that he unfairly took that angle despite my open admittance that cosmology was not my area. Whatever--this is old and stupid to boot.
Atheist Books
I'm proud of you jcgadfly you're on the right track, also Josh Mcdowell "Evidence that demands a verdict"
Hahahahahaha! Haha. Ha. Whoo! Oh man. Wait, were you serious?
Karl Popper ... major 20th century philosopher ... vs Lee Strobel, Chicago Tribune journalist and sensationalist equivocator?
I'm afraid I'll have to decline. Given that you'd compare the two, I'm afraid it wouldn't lead to an entertaining exchange.
Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence
www.wmuz.com Bob Dutko page
Well if you want someone of that caliber, you could read Mathew, Mark, Luke or John.
or you could read Martin Luther's Thesis #95
LOL. Ok, you just lost one interested person by this one statement. You are comparing Popper to the gospels? Seriously?
Wow.
"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci
Hamby's response has nothing to do with you personally, god rules. This has been a point that we have discussed in the past and has nothing to do with the current debate except for how people keep quoting the entire previously quoted reply again and again until the quote boxes multiply like a rabbit farm.
I seriously doubt Hamby had a single emotional reason for posting what he did. He was just doing his job to try and keep the forums from looking a mess.
"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci
I wonder if WMUZ is noticing yet the prayer isn't doing anything for Detroit.
Don Henley aside - could it be that prayer simply doesn't work?
And you've still not answered my Dutko questions, lad.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
I can only attest for it it my own life. Yes it does and has on many occasions. I personally experienced a miracle in my own life. I can understand where ya'll are coming from because i used to despise religion(man made). It was because i hadn't discovered Jesus on a personal level at that time. Now that i have, i would never turn back. I know that many of you on here(rrs) are well educated and intelligent. The wisdom and knowledge i've gained from God is priceless and i wouldn't trade it for all the riches in this life. I say this with all sincerity.
Argument from personal experience. There's no evidence for your claims and so they carry no weight. People from many religions claim to have experienced miracles and god's presence.Are they all right? I claimed the same thing once,but then I realised it was just my emotions and desire to believe.
Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible
Argument from Sadism: Theist presents argument in a wall of text with no punctuation and wrong spelling. Atheist cannot read and is forced to concede.
Don't forget the Christian's friend: confirmation bias.
"Let's just ignore all those times when we prayed for something and it didn't happen. We'll just bring up the times that coincidence kicked in after prayer and call those "answers".
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Argument from personal experience. There's no evidence for your claims and so they carry no weight. People from many religions claim to have experienced miracles and god's presence.Are they all right? I claimed the same thing once,but then I realised it was just my emotions and desire to believe.
I'm not arguing but sharing a piece of my life. It is your choice not to believe because these experiences did happen. I cannot speak for others only myself. Claiming something and actually experiencing it in a real way is two different things. It is a real lesson in humility. Asking God to reveal himself to you with a sincere heart. He will do it.
Don't forget the Christian's friend: confirmation bias.
"Let's just ignore all those times when we prayed for something and it didn't happen. We'll just bring up the times that coincidence kicked in after prayer and call those "answers".
Just because you didn't get the answer you were looking for, doesn't mean it wasn't answered. Maybe the answer was no. Then using your logic, you are calling your "answer" a "non-answer".
Hey there gawd r00lz,
I've read everything on your reading list, with the exception of Martin Luther, so there.
Atheist Books
Oh yeah, Martin Luther, the Protestant reformer who was a Jew-hating bastard.
Ah, the praying to the milk jug argument.
This video explains it - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk6ILZAaAMI
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
John 14:13:And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Jesus doesn't say no.You're prayers must not work.
Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible
Argument from Sadism: Theist presents argument in a wall of text with no punctuation and wrong spelling. Atheist cannot read and is forced to concede.