Here is the proof of God's existence for those that have the guts!
Posted on: March 26, 2008 - 3:39pm
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Here is the proof of God's existence for those that have the guts!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTcZXb5wGDU
How do you explain the existence of the Virgin Mary and the scientfically proven miracles that have occurred at Fatima, Lourdes, Akita, Zeitun. If there is a Virgin Mary, then...Jesus, ya think? 100's of thousands see these miracles and you say there is no proof?
If you are sincerely seeking the truth, then you will find it. If you are working against God, then I am certain you will not respond to this message, and that will be proof that you are representing the "dark side" so to speak.
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So the book with the writers supposedly inspired by God isn't enough on its own?
Interesting...
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Faith is exactly what everyone here has. You Matt have faith in all of the things you have studied to be true. You have faith that your mind is not deceiving you in your own interpretation of your studies.
I have faith in God.
You atheists have faith in the so called materials you have read to influence you. You have faith in your own ability to hopefully not be mistaken about your conclusions. Your faith in your correct interpretation of scripture is exactly why it is so dangerous to interpret scripture, religion, atheism, etc on your own without the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The Catholic Church has stood the test of time. The Holy Spirit guides the Church and thus keeps it from errror in teaching on the faith and morals. Therefore, it is wise to follow God's teaching me by the Holy Spirit through His Church. It is unwise to trust in my own fallible intellect and interpretation. I am obedient and trusting in God, my faith, and the Church. This is sound faith without the risk of error!
Your faith is based on your own minds alone. Kind of risky don't you think?
General education is nice, but that doesn't involve objective analysis of Catholic doctrine or Christian belief now does it? You as a practicing Catholic should know more than you claim. The problem you have is ignoring the obvious. If you have studied the history of Catholic and Jewish doctrine, history of ancient Judea, and knew of the ignorance, contradictions to observed history, archealogy finds, problems with the Christian acceptance of what 1st century beliefs are interpreted perhaps that may be research. Note I didn't even use the science or evolution card here yet.
The Isaiah quote I referenced is a basis to reflute the claim that man sinned by eating of the tree of knowledge. It signifies liability on the part of God for all evil. He admits it in that verse. Why is there anything else to say on the subject? Liability is clear, God was reponsible for the defective creations he made. How can we be anything other than what he supposedly made us to do? Evil was mixed in only by him and no one else. If such is the case the rest of the story is nothing but smoke, mirrors, and coverup. Jesus was not needed to be sub-divided from God to die for himself to cover the act of liability on his part for creating evil. He could but remake the defective design and issue a new model of human.
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"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
Your "logic" is that one will have faith, once they have faith. Bullet-proof logic, that.
"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray
JC WROTE:
So the book with the writers supposedly inspired by God isn't enough on its own?
Interesting.
No, it is not. Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition are both critical along with the Church guided by the Holy Spirit . Its actually quite simple really. Which it should be. Jesus said (paraphrased). We must come to Him with simple childlike faith. All of this debate stuff really is not necessary. All we need is faith and trust (and some Pixie dust for you Peter Pan fans).
Clearly this was needed as the Church and Bible supported the idea the Earth was flat and Christians allowed 1500 years to transpire without visiting North & South America, Australia, & most of Africa. After all the last thing Jesus told his Disciples was to go preach to all nations in Matthew & Luke and they didn't. So if doctrine didn't allow such a view then what of all those who lived and died because the Disciples and subsquent generations of Christians had failed in their duty to Jesus? That certainly would look egotistical wouldn't it?
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"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
Our Catholic faith has never taught anything about FSM. I understand the analogy. I simply choose to have faith in that which is revealed by God, not by man or woman.
You, and apparently others here choose to have faith and trust in your own minds to correctly intrepret truth. Like I said before, how can you be sure you are not deceived? You cannot. I however have reasonable arguments, reasonable beliefs based on a historical person named Jesus, and reasonable beliefs in God's revealed truths as stated above.
Not another "atheists have faith too" bullshit post. No, we don't. What we believe is based on evidence, experience, etc. "Faith" is believing something without or in spite of evidence - such as when you guess which book of nonsense is the right one. Christards typically accuse atheists of having faith that the sun will rise, a chair will hold us when we sit or that we won't get hit by a car crossing the street.
Refuting this
1. The sun has risen every day in history (well, technically the Earth has continued turning so that every part of land faces it for some tie during the day - except arctic regions in wintertime.) There is no scientific evidence the Earth could possibly stop rotating. The sun could explode, but we wouldn't live for the aftermath.
2. Since 99.9999 (I'm guessing) % of the time I have sat on a chair it has in fact held me. It's not faith, it's trusting that chairs are normally made to hold people, and a company that designed and built chairs that failed to hold people sitting more than in extremely rare cases would soon be out of business.
3. We don't have faith in not being hit while crossing the street - that's why we look first. If we had faith we would simply walk across the street without looking. People who trusted faith here rather than looking wouldn't live very long.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
That's the answer for how dead fetuses, the people before Christ (e.g., Moses, Plato) and before the spread of Christianity (e.g., pre-Columbian native population of North America) can be in heaven; the operative phrase is "...who without their own fault do not know of the Gospel of Christ...". This says people that never had a chance at following Catholicism may get to heaven.
It actually closes the door on the salvation of modern-day Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and anyone else you care to mention by the very same phrase. We've all heard the gospel, and found it, well, less than convincing.
Nice try, though.
Wow. That's a piece of work. Always nice to see the official position of "we're right, everyone else INCLUDING all protestants are wrong and will probably go to hell, unless by mysterious ways god chooses to save them" in unequivocal terms.
It reads exactly like someone is saying "okay, fine, believe what you want, practice what you want, but it'll be OUR god who saves you from hell." That's...wonderful.
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maybe if this sig is witty, someone will love me.
Who said anyone here is sure we're not being deceived? I note that myself and everyone else who is skeptical here re-evaluates their data and conclusions. We learn more, refining those conclusions or dumping them in favor of better conclusions if significant evidence comes along. That's the nature of skepticism.
Of course, no one is perfect, so mistakes are made. That's yet to be a reason to abandon being skeptical, however. Just a reason to be cautious.
That's all quite different from settling on a comforting idea, trying to shore it up with "faith" while claiming "evidence" in the form of whatever happens to fit that idea while ignoring any evidence in contradiction.
"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray
Once again you are using circular logic by claiming the Buybull is the word of god. Evidence please. And you might want to check out the Jesus Mythicism forum for evidence Jesus in fact never actually existed. Or rent/buy "The God Who Wasn't There" movie.
http://www.thegodmovie.com
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
So instead of using your own mind, you prefer to base your decisions and faith on the minds of ancient people who believed many strange things about the world they observed. It wasn't until recently, that the Catholic Church admitted the Earth is not at the center of the Universe. They said it was due to mutual incomprehension. What part of Galileo was absolutely right and the Church was totally wrong do you not get? Was the Holy Spirit on vacation for several hundred years?
This and many more stupid pronouncements by popes helped me realize the Catholic concept of the Church intepreting doctrine for its members was ignorant and egotistic.
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"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
Err, if you mean "shikko needs to read GG&S", please turn up the gain on your sarcasm detector.
Or remove the helmet.
--
maybe if this sig is witty, someone will love me.
OK...
So in order to be a good Catholic, you stop thinking and blindly accept the words of people who have Pope and/or Saint in front of their names because those folks NEVER used the religion they constructed to their advantage.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
It completely blows me away
It completely blows me away that adults honestly believe the shit you are espousing as "truth".
You do NOT have a "soul", neither does anyone else. I know it sucks, but it's reality.
There is no such thing as miracles. Short of being retarded, how can you believe any of that crap? Your evidence is on par with the evidence supporting Big Foot and the Loch Ness monster. Shame on you!
There is NO god. Sure it would be nice to have some personal psychopath I could worship, eh fuck that. You can keep that concept all to yourself.
Your christian bible is the greatest LIE ever used to enslave humanity.
And while the decision to have an abortion is always devastating, it is NOT murder.
Respectfully?????,
Lenny---Hardly a respectful post Lenny.
Big Foot and Loch Ness? Funny response, but incorrect. If you read my posts and research the data for yourself, you will see the truth.
Yes, we have a soul. Denying truth does not make it false. 2+2=4. You can say all day long it equals FSM, but that does not make it truth.
Truth simply is. Whether you and I accept it or reject it is irrelevant. Our opinion or interpretation of truth has no bearing whatsoever on truth itself.
Nevertheless, your interpretation is the correct one?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Do you ever get dizzy while living your life with circular logic?
"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray
The good thing about be an ex-Christian relapsed Catholic heretic is that you are Catholic in the eyes of the Church. If you aren't in the mood to argue with 7th day Adventists, Mormons, or Jehovah Winesses you simply tell them they are all going to hell as they are heretics from the True Church of Christ. They have no answer for that. If they do, tell them you are going to pray to Mary for them when you go to confession.
____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
You are confusing, probably not even on purpose, two meanings of the word "faith". I have "expectation based on experience" that when I drop a hammer, it will head towards the center of the earth. You have "belief without evidence" that someone else's interpretation of scripture is right and that following them is the correct thing to do. Both of those quoted phrases can be replaced with "faith".
Atheists have the first kind of faith, but not the second. You have both.
So are you one of those Catholics who thinks it's impossible for the Church to make mistakes, or are you one that thinks contradictions only seem like contradictions because you have a faulty understanding of god?
I have a hypothetical question I would like to ask you. After you answer, I will answer.
What would you do if, through whatever process you'd like, you became convinced that God wanted you to kill someone, and that it had to be done right away?
--
maybe if this sig is witty, someone will love me.
"Of course, no one is perfect, so mistakes are made. That's yet to be a reason to abandon being skeptical, however. Just a reason to be cautious."
Once again, proving that to reason on ones own without the wisdom of the Holy Spirit is dangerous business. Cautious, it seems being obedient to God's word would be the "cautious" and wise thing to do.
The Catholic Church guided by the Holy Spirit is perfect in teaching on faith and morals. Regarding science, like the earth being flat. The Holy Spirit has no interest in our views on that. The Holy Spirit's job is to guide us in God's teaching on faith and morals.
nice sense of humor there.
1) You've not proven (or even significantly evidenced) the existence of god or the holy spirit. It would be irrational to wait on the guidance of something that likely does not exist.
2) I guess when the Catholic Church stood by quietly and allowed - even encouraged - the systematic extermination and torture of human beings by one of its own, this was via the "moral guidance" of this supposed holy spirit?
"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray
"I have a hypothetical question I would like to ask you. After you answer, I will answer.
What would you do if, through whatever process you'd like, you became convinced that God wanted you to kill someone, and that it had to be done right away?"
My response: Thank you! This is exactly what I we needed right now.
First, I would seek medical help. I would certainly not kill anyone in this example since my obedience to God's commandments of thou shall not kill/murder supercedes my own mind. Proves my point, that my mind could get it wrong, interpret incorrectly what I perceive to be truth, and thus lead me to untruth. Simple to obey God's commandments through Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition and be obedient to His Church on faith and morals.
"Secondly, ever see iRobot?
"
1. A robot may not injure a human being, or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
2. A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
3. A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law."
No, I am not a robot, but I liked the similarity in the response.
Here are the facts:
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2007/0709tbt.asp
and this is very helpful too:
http://www.catholic.com/library/inquisition.asp
Existence of the Virgin Mary: The early church had to face a problem in that the common people clung tenaciously to the age old worship of the goddess figure. Patriarchal religions had never been very popular, as people ony had to look at the natural world to see who the REAL creators of life were. So it was a case of if you can't beat 'em, incorporate 'em. Thus, the randy mother goddess was transformed into the eternal virgin, stripped of her erotic and earthy nature and left as a palid, weakened version of her former self.
No scientific evidence exists of anything that occured at Fatima... and the general concensus is mass hysteria brought on by reinforced religious ecstacy.
Lourdes is one of my favorites...
In the general population, with serious illness, there is a rate of spontanious remission, or cures, that hovers around .04%. The 'cure' rate at Lourdes hovers around .04%. That coupled with the FACT that while one may see piles of crutches of dubious origin, one NEVER sees a pile of prosthetic limbs.
In every other case, NO scientific inquiry has been actually permited, and in those rare cases when an unbiased investigator has shown up, fraud was found. It has long been a doctrine of the Catholic Church that 'Pious Fraud' is perfectly permisable, as long as it bolsters the faith of the masses, and the coffers of the church.
LC>;-}>
Christianity: A disgusting middle eastern blood cult, based in human sacrifice, with sacraments of cannibalism and vampirism, whose highest icon is of a near naked man hanging in torment from a device of torture.
An abysmal support of your position. (Pardon the pun.)
"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray
In every other case, NO scientific inquiry has been actually permited, and in those rare cases when an unbiased investigator has shown up, fraud was found. It has long been a doctrine of the Catholic Church that 'Pious Fraud' is perfectly permisable, as long as it bolsters the faith of the masses, and the coffers of the church.
Actually, the Catholic Church has condemned many false apparitions and does not condone perpetuating lies. The Church stands for truth, which is very offensive to people since they quite often disagree with the Church teachings on faith and morals. (reminder: not science).
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you didn't know Asimov was an atheist.
I'm not even going to try to figure out the illogic of using RCC rules (or the rules of any other church) to worship the God of the Hebrews
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
I'll take that as a "yes". Two pages full of careful skirting of the more heinous activities and a careful framing of the fact that the Church and their agents were, indeed, bent on using torture and death to crush opposition to their faith.
Actually, if you read it, you would take my answer as a "No". The Church does not endorse or condone such tragic behavior.
"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray
You can't be serious.
They didn't endorse it or condone it. They just did it.
Oh, the torture was used to "save their souls".
I guess no one has learned that any confession garnered by torture (even if it is to the glory of God) is useless.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you didn't know Asimov was an atheist.
I'm not even going to try to figure out the illogic of using RCC rules (or the rules of any other church) to worship the God of the Hebrews
No, I did not know that. Just trying to add a little extra fun to my responses.
Is it illogic to obey a traffic signal when the light turns red? Some choose to disobey, thinking they know best. I choose to obey the traffic signal, even if there is not a single car around, and its 3am. Why, because obedience to reasonable laws is wisdom and truth. Just makes sense to me.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Come on, there is supposed 'proof' for Bigfoot all around. Seeing, especially via camera, is not believing. Let me clarify this:
If I see something like a car drive by, I have good reason to believe it's there because cars are not outrageous to see like the virgin mary.
If I'm seeing something supernatural, I better have good proof that it's really supernatural... Seeing an apparation 100 feet away on top of a building, where I can't tell whats underneath it obviously projecting it... there is no reason to believe it's supernatural until I get an up close look.
In conclusion, search for evidence of bigfoot... it's out there, pictures, videos, etc.!
There are real consequences to disobeying traffic laws. No such consequences exist with the majority of Scriptural edicts.
The consequences of choosing to reject God seem pretty "damn" serious to me. (pun intended).
The official position...straight from the Ministry of Truth..
Ignorance is Strength.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
George Orwell
If I'm seeing something supernatural, I better have good proof that it's really supernatural... Seeing an apparation 100 feet away on top of a building, where I can't tell whats underneath it obviously projecting it... there is no reason to believe it's supernatural until I get an up close look.
If millions of people see the apparition moving around over a period of 2 years, is it not reasonable to assume that it occurred?
You really do not have to be there at Zeitun in 1968 to believe it happened. This one is a no brainer if you research it for yourself!
sierra wrote:
It certainly is.. People do not just make up stuff like that... ** goes back to watching Jerry Springer re-runs **
www.elvislives.net/
I knew if I looked hard enough at your posts I could at least find one thing I could agree with you on..
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
George Orwell
Only if you've shut off your brain and accepted being intimidated into a fear of hell.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Only if you've shut off your brain and accepted being intimidated into a fear of hell.
Not intimidated. Freeeeee Will!
God let's you choose heaven or choose hell. Simple, but quite serious.
You choose: eternal happiness with God, or not, seems fair and reasonable that each person gets to decide and is not forced to go to heaven.
Now if only the omniscient God allowed free will. Or are you saying god isn't omniscient?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
It certainly is.. People do not just make up stuff like that... ** goes back to watching Jerry Springer re-runs **
www.elvislives.net/
Disputing fact and reasonable conclusions and comparing it with goofy Jerry Springer stuff or Elvis lives? You see, no valid dispute has been yet made against these apparitions at Zeitun.
American wrote:
I knew if I looked hard enough at your posts I could at least find one thing I could agree with you on..
Very funny, good one! Took 49 posts though...
I don't understand what you mean.
Not valid to you, perhaps. In the real world, you've been refuted repeatedly and have offered no counter-argument.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
"Believe or go to hell" is by any sane definition not free will. Would you say a slave has free will, since he can always "choose" to disobey and be beaten for it?
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
After reading a couple pages of the intelligent and well though out responses to the slavering, rabid rantings of sierra I have only one thing to say:
Sierra, wipe the spittle from your chin and stop trying to think with your intestines. I know church tradition advocates doing all the important thinking below your neck and above your navel, but thinking with you guts OR your heart is useless.
That said, I'm not going to bother watching for a reply, let alone wasting any more time with you than that. You have earned my contempt, and that's all you're going to get from me.
"But still I am the Cat who walks by himself, and all places are alike to me!" ~Rudyard Kipling
Mazid the Raider says: I'd rather face the naked truth than to go "augh, dude, put some clothes on or something" and hand him some God robes, cause you and I know that the naked truth is pale, hairy, and has an outie
Entomophila says: Ew. AN outie
"Believe or go to hell" is by any sane definition not free will. Would you say a slave has free will, since he can always "choose" to disobey and be beaten for it?
Okay, let's put it this way. You can choose to be with God, or without Him. Hell is separation from God. If you all want to be separated from God, all I am saying is that is free will, namely your decision.
I choose to be with God now and when I die. You want no part of God in your life. Sad, but that is your free will choice.
This is also my answer: I would check myself into the psychiatric ward. However, you seem to have a problem: you are convinced that 1) you think, with your prone to error human mind, that you understand what "thou shalt not kill" means; 2) you think, with your prone to error human mind, that God wants you to kill someone; 3) you think, with your prone to error human mind, that someone else (who also has a prone to error human mind) can resolve the conflict for you.
So now on to another question, same you-then-me as before.
What would you do if, through whatever process you'd like, an archbishop became convinced that God wanted you to kill someone, and that it had to be done right away?
Did you ever read one of Asimov's short stories where a robot was given a set of commands that made two of the laws come into contradiction with each other? It ended up running in a circle around a person who needed help, because he was told to help the person, but could not give that help without harming someone else.
My hypothetical was that you were convinced it was God who was telling you to do this. Can God not give you a direction that goes against something said previously? Why or why not?
--
maybe if this sig is witty, someone will love me.
sierra wrote:
This is painful. Evidence for people lying to themselves, deluding themselves into thinking/believing they saw miracles, making crap up to prey upon the "not so intelligent" is all around you, both present day and throughout history....The sad part is those same people convincing themselves that it's always someone else who falls for tricks and not them. The apparitions I see are fact.
Do you have even the slightest idea how mentally disturbed you appear ?
If searching for something honest, well thought out or compelling among your posts...you don't leave one much to work with.
Happy cheese toast to you.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
George Orwell
Not that simple since I don't believe any gods exist. Besides that, isn't that an extreme choice? There are plenty of ways a god that was anywhere close to all-powerful who was the slightest bit good and not insane could come up with to keep someone "separate" without pointless torture.
1. Non-existance - make you like you were before you were born (this is what most of us believe will happen anyway.)
2. Somewhere else but without torture
3. Being a ghost, reincarnation, etc.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team