Religion and the dissapearence of the Goddess

JanCham
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Religion and the dissapearence of the Goddess

I haven't found many good studies on this, but I was wondering if anyone has found any studies with archeological evidence towards what looks like the utter destruction of Goddess figures in human history.  My personal theories towards who holds onto such concepts were those cultures with favorable conditions.  For instance the Druids had Goddesses while the Jewish gave up their Goddesses.   In the north 'nature' was favorable, and so they worshiped it, while in the desserts the earth was very harsh.  I don't believe in any form of god myself, but I would like to know just how our theisim was shaped to be what it is to this day.  Enough of the fables, I want the real history of religion, and this seems like a good place to start.

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One of the first

One of the first anthropologists to notice the hints of Goddess worship in ancient Greece was Jane Ellen Harrison.  Her Prolegomena to the Study of Greek Religion (1903) was a groundbreaking work on the subject.  If you want to start at the beginning, that's a good place.

 

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 Also, there's Pallas

 Also, there's Pallas (Athena), and GreekGoddess if you need to speak to actual goddesses. Or their usernames could be lies, I'm not sure.

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You have some brown-ish

You have some brown-ish substance on the tip of your nose there...


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Rook_Hawkins wrote:You have

Rook_Hawkins wrote:

You have some brown-ish substance on the tip of your nose there...

I think maybe a "full of shit" jab would have been more appropriate, but fair enough. 

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Admit it, you just want to

Admit it, you just want to fuck one of 'em!


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MattShizzle wrote:Admit it,

MattShizzle wrote:

Admit it, you just want to fuck one of 'em!

Yikes! Very suave. No, I prefer women closer to my age. As a heads up, I haven't been in high school for a long time. Long time.

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   I admit it     ....

   I admit it     .... But it's true, .... men couldn't be sharing power with women, and so god gave his only begotten son, not a lesser girl ..... girls in chains all the years .....


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JanCham wrote:I was

JanCham wrote:

I was wondering if anyone has found any studies with archeological evidence towards what looks like the utter destruction of Goddess figures in human history. 

I'm still here. Worship me, bitches!


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Quote:I'm still here.

Quote:
I'm still here. Worship me, bitches!

You know, the proof that ancient man worshiped goddesses is right here in front of us.  I guarantee that at least two thirds of the straight men who read this post thought something like, "Woah... that chick is cool.  I could worship her..."

Somewhere along the line, a good looking woman figured out that all she had to do was tell men to worship her and they would.  Who needs archaeology when you've got psychology?

 

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greek goddess wrote:JanCham

greek goddess wrote:

JanCham wrote:

I was wondering if anyone has found any studies with archeological evidence towards what looks like the utter destruction of Goddess figures in human history. 

I'm still here. Worship me, bitches!

Haha - that's the spirit! It's a good thing you showed up. Rook was worried.

Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence


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Depending on what modern

Depending on what modern religion you're looking at, the goddess may still be hanging around in some form.  Protestants from Luther till today have jumped all over the Catholics for their elevation of Mary to what they determine to be near equal status with Jesus himself, very often pointing out similarities to the Cult of Diana. And the Catholics don't have too much to say in their defense, given that the doctrine of the Assumption was only written into stone by a Pope in 1950--that is to say they aren't exactly running from the accusation.  And of course the "Madonna with child" is an ancient trope of the art of the Pagan world, as is to a lesser extent the Pieta.  And the Qu'ran, influenced in its view of Christianity by the Nestorian church, has similar feelings about the supernatural quality of Mary, replacing the Holy Spirit in their version of the Trinity with her (of course Muslims don't believe in the Trinity, but there was apparently the need to point out the foolishness and tendency to idolatry of the Christians).  

It does seem that the old Pagan love/fertility Goddess (Diana, Astarte, etc) really struggled and eventually collapsed in the Common Era.  I'm wondering if the rising popularity of the female-excluding Mithraist cult and male-centered but female-courting Christian cult weren't the nail in the coffin. 

"The whole conception of God is a conception derived from ancient Oriental despotisms. It is a conception quite unworthy of free men."
--Bertrand Russell


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DamnDirtyApe wrote: It does

DamnDirtyApe wrote:
 

It does seem that the old Pagan love/fertility Goddess (Diana, Astarte, etc) really struggled and eventually collapsed in the Common Era.  I'm wondering if the rising popularity of the female-excluding Mithraist cult and male-centered but female-courting Christian cult weren't the nail in the coffin. 

A couple of people I met who are graduate students in classics are working on this but they tell me they're far from anything concrete. That's only because of the limited amount of archeological material in the first place. The written material from that time is dubious enough. You definitely have the goddesses disappearing, but as DamnDirtyApe says, the sentiment creeps back in the form of Mary. The point of disappearance would be really hard to pin down, especially with the idea of "worship" being considerably different in the ancient world than it is now.

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HisWillness wrote:Yikes!

HisWillness wrote:

Yikes! Very suave. No, I prefer women closer to my age. As a heads up, I haven't been in high school for a long time. Long time.

How can you tell how old they are?  I'm 34.  Are you older than me?

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HisWillness wrote:greek

HisWillness wrote:

greek goddess wrote:

JanCham wrote:

I was wondering if anyone has found any studies with archeological evidence towards what looks like the utter destruction of Goddess figures in human history. 

I'm still here. Worship me, bitches!

Haha - that's the spirit! It's a good thing you showed up. Rook was worried.

Project much? =P

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Watcher wrote:How can you

Watcher wrote:
How can you tell how old they are?

Magical powers. I don't know, they look young.

Watcher wrote:
I'm 34.  Are you older than me?

No.

I'd like to apologize to Jan for this topic turning into an awkward locker-room. My joke was lame! I admit it! Both women had goddess usernames! I didn't realize at the time that my comment would read so creepy, so let's drop it. Apologies all around.

 

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fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence


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Watcher wrote:How can you

[MOD EDIT: Double Post]


HisWillness
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Rook_Hawkins wrote:Project

Rook_Hawkins wrote:

Project much? =P

Am I missing an in-joke here? Are you her girlfriend? You're acting like I claimed Jesus existed or something.

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fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence


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I don't think he's her

I don't think he's her boyfriend and I'm all but certain he isn't her girlfriend!


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(ahem... back on

(ahem... back on topic...)

Quote:
The point of disappearance would be really hard to pin down, especially with the idea of "worship" being considerably different in the ancient world than it is now.

IIRC, Joseph Campbell named ~600BCE as the somewhat arbitrary turning point from female centered worship to male dominated patriarchal pantheons and monotheist religions.  I say somewhat arbitrary because in music, we say that the Baroque era ended in 1750, but that's only because Bach didn't die before then.  People had been writing classical style music for thirty years, but out of respect for J.S. musicologists didn't end his era before he died.  I believe religion has to be viewed in the same way.  As late as the early 1900s, there were primitive societies still practicing goddess worship in parts of Africa, and I believe South America.

 

 

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Hambydammit wrote:As late as

Hambydammit wrote:
As late as the early 1900s, there were primitive societies still practicing goddess worship in parts of Africa, and I believe South America.

I'm guessing from the original post, though, that we're talking Western world. Otherwise, there are still a few popular modern polytheistic religions that have goddesses.

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fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence


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Quote:I'm guessing from the

Quote:
I'm guessing from the original post, though, that we're talking Western world. Otherwise, there are still a few popular modern polytheistic religions that have goddesses.

Right.  Since all of the Western religions come from the occident, I think it's safe to go with Campbell for general conversation.  Most of that area was characterized by male dominated pantheons or monotheist religions by around 600.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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