Theism debate with best friends mom
Posted on: May 9, 2008 - 9:39pm
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Theism debate with best friends mom
My best friends mom (Christian) just said she wanted to have a religion talk with me.... i'm excited to say the least. What main points should I cover? I know all the debates and big questions that arise. I have read like... everything that has anything to do with it. I just don't really know how to organize what to say in what order. I'm going to pwn them one way or another I just want to make them cry because they know I'm right.
We pop theist like Orville Redenbacher!
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Whether it is a lite beer or a real beer, start with a beer. Make the conversation start out happy. Use your facts, knowing she has no facts of her own. This method has proven itself to me, although I have had to make several drinks of various flavors along with the beer. Just keep it polite, light hearted. You might even introduce her to RRS.
Sure she's not just trying to get you alone for other reasons? Is she a MILF?
Make sure you get a definition of God upfront before any discussion happens. Find out whether she thinks God is omnipotent or not. If she says he is, hit her with the Problem of Evil. There is no escape, she will be forced to admit that either God is evil or not all-powerful.
If she will accept a limited God, first point out that you are not talking about the God of the Christian Bible any more. Then ask for her evidence that God exists. She'll try to go circular on you, but be ready for that.
Lazy is a word we use when someone isn't doing what we want them to do.
- Dr. Joy Brown
In all seriousness you want to spend some time reading the likes of Dan Barker, Robert Ingersoll, Richard Dawkins, David Mills, Sam Harris etc. There's also that book "The Atheist Debaters Handbook."
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
Tell mom you are jesus .....
Epicurus' probelm of evil:
Is [God] willing to prevent evil, but not able? then is he impotent. Is he able, but not willing? then is he malevolent. Is he both able and willing? whence then is evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
Been around about as long as jesus,and theits still don't have a good response.Well,they'll try tell you they do and you don't understand theology,but whatever.
You might want to also spens some time at Skeptics Annotated Bible or Evil Bible and get some bad verses to ask her about.
Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible
Argument from Sadism: Theist presents argument in a wall of text with no punctuation and wrong spelling. Atheist cannot read and is forced to concede.
I think a good point to remember is that while she's trying to using rational debate to convince you, i.e. trying to speak your language to speak to you, it's not rational debate that persuades her.
Her opinion of atheism is more likely to be formed by the character of atheists she meets.
I might be wrong, she could be a secret rationalist who bases her beliefs on a complex theology of reasoning (in which case you can switch tactics) but I think the alternative is more likely.
Like the others said, above all try to keep it friendly and remember that your mission requires her to understand the points you're making, so try and uses common-sense layman examples where possible.
Obviously if she brings scientific claims into it then you're going to have to refute her with scientific knowledge that she might not understand, but save it for when she brings up science...
I also think that you should let her lead with the questions.
They will reveal her own personal objections to atheism so will bring up the points that are most likely to affect her opinion.
Morality is sure to be brought up - I bet she'll have never have heard Plato's Euthyphro argument before.
(I still remember when I heard that argument for the first time - it was such a beautiful moment!!)
Lol! I could give armchair advice all day!!
The main thing I'd like to suggest is that you remember that many people judge by character as much, maybe more so, than they judge the arguments.
So keeping your cool will be more important than 'winning' the debate.
I remember when I debated my Grandad at Christmas and although the debate was 'passionate' (I think we both used incendiary examples and raised our voices a little) he said at the end that he was impressed that I'd kept it 'logical' and that I hadn't resorted to calling him 'irrational' or a 'religious nut'.
Many Christians trully believe that you need faith to be a good person.
Just being that good person in front of them will perhaps challenge their faith more than a rational argument ever could.
This is the key. A kind-of "it's not a big deal" attitude is far more effective than logic, which many people believe is hocus-pocus. I don't think you'll be getting into science. It'll be a lot of appeal to emotion. She's concerned that when you die, you'll get punished. So while her heart is in the right place, she will most likely consider your arguments to be "from the devil".
If the weirdness of that doesn't scare you off the conversation you're going to have, then good luck. If you can make her think about it (or better yet, think of questions to ask her local religious leader) then that's the best I think you can expect. The absolute best you can expect is that there will be a round two.
Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence
Exactly.As hard as it is, I try to always be nice when debating(or arguing). To me,the minute you lose it and start yelling, or being rude, or swearing you have lost the debate. You have fulfilled their stereotypical view of the angry,rude atheist, and they will switch off,since they have been proved right. Just being a nice person can do volumes for your argument.
Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible
Argument from Sadism: Theist presents argument in a wall of text with no punctuation and wrong spelling. Atheist cannot read and is forced to concede.
I agree, come off nicely. Most theists think atheists are evil people, and are 'blinded' by the devil.
Come off as nicely as you can. This is what changed most of my friends opinions about atheists. Just being a nice guy and doing the right thing for the (excuse the pun) hell of it. It'll work wonders for your argument !
Good luck. Let us know how it goes.
Living life to its fullest, without the need for a "God"
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Becoming an Atheist has made my world make sense, but the people in it less and less so.
Will the wise!
Whats up I haven't talked to you in forever. Yeah one of my best friends girlfriends who happens to be another one of my best friends sisters. (Try and follow that one lol) Told me I was the devil and she was never talking to me again. 
And religious leaders are very VERY good at the use of rhetoric. And as we all know the Sophist used to teach... "Truth is relative".
We pop theist like Orville Redenbacher!
Yeah Josh, that's so typical of the xains, to abandon their enemy. Story Jesus says Love the enemy.
“I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.” Ghandi
Who are the devils ? ( a no brainer )
Atheism Books.
I was under the impression that the Christians were to love their enemy? Who else is a greater enemy than those who seek to destroy what you love? Is an enemy an enemy because they disagree with you? Or are we disagreeing with them because we are the enemy? I would like to believe that we are the enemy because we disagree but my experience with them leads me to the conclusion that they seem to want to believe that we are simply disagreeing because we are the enemy. But what denotes us as the enemy of them?
We pop theist like Orville Redenbacher!
Well a short answer, in religious style is: If you are not god , then you have idols, and that is a mistake in thinking (your devil).
All is ONE. No "anything" above me/you/us. No MASTER.
"ONE"
I sometimes ask the religious ; "Who taught all is god best, Jesus, Buddha, Carl Sagan, George Carlin ? And was that a message of surrender to an idol, or separation of you from god ((("father cosmos" ))). Isn't the saving message, ZERO superstition, and ZERO separation. Isn't "worship" a SIN. Are you not the Christ too ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
I AM an "atheist preacher". I AM LOUDER than any preacher of Abe's hell.
I must do vocal podcasts at the top of my lungs.
I wish to SAVE you , me the "ATHEIST PREACHER" ...... 
Slogans ??? "Atheists for Love, A's for Life, A's for Peace, A's for Fair, A's for Christ Perfection, A's for G O D !
Atheists "Against" slogans ??? A's against DOGMA , against MASTERS , against STARVATION , against CONFUSION , against SEPARATION , etc .....
((((( Thanks for being an atheist ..... , sincerely , ME god as YOU.
Atheism Books.
Whoa, you're the devil? That escalated quickly. What did you tell her?
No kidding - when I was a kid, I used to think that eventually I'd understand what the sermons were about. Turns out nobody understands what the sermons are about, including the guys doing the sermons. Go figure.
Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence
Well... I was actually trying to be an asshole. At my workplace we play a game to see who can get called an asshole first... So I basically told her that she was an idiot for actually believing in fairy tales and that she should probably read some books before she makes the assumption that God is real. So then I started the play on evolution, which she said "I think it's utter bullshit, I didn't come from a fucking monkey and thats all there is to it." so then I replied - "What about natural selection?" and she actually said "What is natural selection". So I went off on her. She is the senior class president of the local high school, she has all A's, but she doesn't know of natural selection. Basically, the ability to quote and cite science made me the devil, or at least the devil had control over my mind because I disagreed.
We pop theist like Orville Redenbacher!
Have you had that talk with the Mom yet? How did it go?
You know, she has actually been putting it off. She heard me rambling on about something and I guess got scared... it's not the end damnit. I shall destroy her! (Peacefully of course)
We pop theist like Orville Redenbacher!
*toggle Palpatine*
Poor fool. Only now, at the end, does she understand.
BAZAAAAPPP!
*Palpatine off*
Lazy is a word we use when someone isn't doing what we want them to do.
- Dr. Joy Brown
You will let us know how this little chat turns out, won't you. At least the conversation could be fun. I have had many good visits with co-workers regarding my Atheism. Of course I have no idea what they have said behind my back. But I do get some respect at work because of my Atheism, certainly not my work ethics.
Maybe you could bring some of your Atheist materials over and leave them behind. That could be funny, she might actually pick one up to read. Hopefully she wouldn't throw any in the garbage.
"To argue with a man (or woman) who has forsaken the use and authority of reason, is like administering medicine to the dead." A almost verbatim quote by the great Thomas Paine.
You might be much better off discussing issues with your rational friends in these forums than trying to have a planned debate session with someone who IS SIMPLY NOT GOING TO CHANGE THEIR MIND based on any argument, evidence or passion you put out.
Remember, faith has a built in immune system which makes it virtually immune to logic.
Good luck in any event.