Reminds me of reading about Black Mormons. I think a Black Atheist is even more of an outcast.

Isn't there a myth among blacks that Islam was their pre-slavery native religion in Africa? So they often turn to this religion to rebel against past and present injustices. Wasn't Islam forced on Africans (by violent means) just as Christianity was by enslavers?

P.S. I also live in Sin City when I'm in the States.

Thank god (not literally of course) for the Infidel Guy and Greydon Square. I don't believe that the black community is any more religious than the white community so I can't explain why many African Americans who claim atheism seem to be ignored any more than whites. However, that might not be such a bad thing because we atheists aren't necessarily viewed in such a good light anyways.

What I meant was that the numbers of "true" believers is probably very similiar to those of other racial groups. Many people claim to be a muslim, hindu or whatever but don't necessarily attend regular services. In Denmark about 80% are members of the church, but only about 20% would be considered devout. So I agree that membership in a church is very important in the south, for instance, but that doesn't mean that everyone who attends for social or cultural reasons is devout. 

Welcome to the forums, WrathJW! Hopefully, you won't feel that black atheists are "invisible" here. Just one word of advice, though; we tend to discourage simply linking to a post elsewhere. Feel free to put links in your posts, but at least include an excerpt, an opinion, or a question to spark the conversation with the link. Otherwise, it kind of seems like spamming. (Not that I think that's what you were doing, but those posts do tend to get deleted on occasion.)

Welcome aboard!

Kelly

Here's some interesting stats pulled from the Barna Research Group:

Estimates of Black church attendance show attendance at the typical Black church to be 70% higher than at the typical white church and for the services to be nearly 70% longer. 50% of American Blacks attend church on Sunday which is 5 to 10 percent higher than the norm for most other Americans. 92% of Blacks say they are "absolutely certain" they can count on God to answer their prayers which is higher than either Whites or Hispanics. Nearly two-thirds of African American adults list their pastor as a community leader as well as a primary spokesman for the Black community.

Sad, scary, and pitiful stuff.

Yep.  I agree completely.  At least here in the south, (I'm in Georgia) I think most blacks assume by default that another black is religious.  It's encouraged not only by society, but by sports as well, which, if you're a poor southern black, is your best chance to improve your lot in life.  At the University of Georgia, head football coach Mark Richt is an outspoken Christian who holds prayer meetings with his team and encourages all of them in "Christian values."  Athletes are pretty much expected to thank god for their athletic gifts, etc...  This is pretty much par for the course in college athletics.

Besides education, socioeconomic status is also negatively correlated to religiosity.  Since blacks are still typically a large percentage of the underprivileged in many American cities, that's another piece of corroborating evidence suggesting that Christianity is far more prevalent for blacks.

Hitch didn't say that MLK did any damage in that regard, actually.  He said that the media has a racist tendency to assume that black people are preternaturally devoted to charismatic pastors and that this is something of a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Essentially a local figure of no particular great repute (like a young Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton) can be targeted for commentary and soundbytes to a greater and greater extent so that they come to be identified as more widely respected than is consistent with what they have earned by their deeds.  If you look for the same from Martin Luther King, you'll actually find very little in the way of rapid edit clips or textual blurbs, but that's Jesse and Al and Louis's specialty.

What Hitchens did say about Martin Luther King is that his inner circle was composed of a surprising number of secular thinkers and socialist agitators (like Bayard Rustin and A. Philip Randolph) and that these individuals were the real organizational force within the Southern Christian Leadership Conference.  

Thanks Wrath. That was a very interesting and well written piece.

Welomce to the RRS. I look forward to hearing more from you.

Ronin

Great blog post. I feel your pain in regards to having to keep your mouth shut. It's not nearly as bad where I grew up, but the threat of ostracizing was real. Welcome, Wrath, to the RRS boards. I look forward to hearing more from you.

In particular, I'm glad that someone has written a blog directly addressing the issue of black atheism. I know Reggie Finley (the Infidel Guy) has talked about it, and Greydon Square has sung about it, and now we have someone to write about it. It's great.

My personal opinion: Over the years, I've shed many biases. While I've always tried to eliminate racism in myself, at the same time, I still had this concept of 'races'. I considered myself 'white' and others 'black', 'asian', whatever. But since studying human evolution, I realize that there are no *real* genetic races of humans. The differences are superficial and there is far more that we share than that we differ on.

So what explains this notion of 'race'? In my opinion, ideas of race are purely cultural. Of course there is genetic variation in various populations, but there are no distinct races. So, in my view, there is no black race, but there are people who culturally identify as members of a 'black race'. It is inherently racist to consider yourself 'white' or 'black' or whatever; we are all just humans who happen to have different skin colours, just as we have different eye and hair colours. Thinking there is anything more to it than that is irrational and unsupported by evidence.

But there are real cultural differences, and these different cultures identify with these superficial cosmetic differences. So, there is such a thing as Black American Culture, and your essay identifies a lot of the qualities of this culture, for example their Christian/slave roots.

Here's where I think this genetic/culture distinction becomes interesting: If these genetic differences are just superficial and largely cosmetic, then why must a person be tied to a particular racial culture? Just as a person can change nationalities, and become a citizen of another country/culture, why can't a person with black or white skin adopt the cultural aspects of 'white' or 'black' cultures? There are plenty of examples, say of people like Eminem, or whoever. Or better yet, why can't we all just drop these racial cultures altogether?

I have chosen to take this as far as I can. I no longer consider myself white, I consider myself a human who incidentally has white skin. But my personal cultural identification is in no way 'white'. It has no racial aspect to it. I have chosen to reject race as something that identifies my personal culture.

I wonder what your (Wrath's) opinion (or anyone else's) is on this idea of rejecting racial culture altogether. For instance, in your essay, you take on personal shame for the religious behaviour and irrationality of other people who happen to have black skin. But why should you? You personally have rejected that religious/irrational aspect of your original culture. While you may still share some similarities with 'black culture' as a whole, due to being brought up in that culture, you don't have to personally identify yourself as a member of that culture. In that way, you can have a healthy separation from the culture that you were brought up in, while at the same time not becoming an 'uncle tom' or rejecting people who happen to have black skin (they are fellow humans, after all). I wonder what you think about this.

Some powerful ideas, Natural. I have vascillated quite a bit over this issue. In my late teens and early twenties I strived quite a bit to not think of myself and others in terms of Black and White. But with the realities of racial injustice in this country I found that approach to be irresponsible and even disrespectable to those Black Americans who had fought and died on my behalf. I found that disassociating myself with Black culture was the same as abandoning the very people who had helped me to rise. As you pointed out, I do reject what I see as negative aspects of the culture like the heavy emphasis on religion while still promoting the positive aspects of the culture. My wife is white and my ex-wife was Hawaiin and Fillipino. I have 3 children that are bi-racial and I need to make sure that their future will be better by continuing to advance the cause of equality and freedom from mental slavery. I do believe that someday we will be able to leave behind these racial identifiers and all identify as human beings. I also believe that it will likely start with people like you. For people like me it is harder to ignore racial and cultural differences because the world we live in still victimizes us because of those differnces.

My response to that would be that I'm not talking about denying the reality of the existence and influence of racial culture. For instance, nobody denies the courage and respect of MLK, Malcolm X, etc. To say that 'I don't identify with black culture' doesn't mean 'I reject blacks or the accomplishments of blacks in the name of black culture'. It means (or should mean) 'I really identify with all of humanity, blacks included, and skin colour doesn't rule my allegiances'. So, as a 'non-white, non-black human', I personally identify with the efforts of MLK and Malcolm X, just not in a racial way, or when they were tainted by their own racism. For instance, Malcolm X often used the term 'white devils', and whatnot. I think that is racist. However, he's still a human, and aside from comments like that, he was fighting the good fight of racial equality, especially in his later days. So, I consider Malcolm X my brother, not as a black man, and not because I have 'white guilt', but because he is my brother human, and he largely fought for human values. Where I disagree with him, I disagree with his ideas, such as his identification with Islam, but maintain a respect for his humanity.

I definitely understand. For me, it is hard not to hate religion when it so negatively affects my life, the lives of those around me, and basically society and the world as a whole. I did hate it for a long time, and I considered people who identified as religious irresponsible and evil. Now I consider them victims of a communicable mental disorder, a memetic disease. I guess what I'm saying with the 'racial culture' idea, is that I now see racism as a similar thing. It's like a racial religion. It's an idea that spreads around and influence people's behaviour. But the people are still people, and it's really the idea/concept that I hate, not the people themselves. I can still condemn the man who hangs his fellow man from a tree, not because he's white, or because he's racist, or because his victim is black, but because of his terrible act. I can also praise a man who preaches against oppression, not because of his skin colour or his beliefs in doing so, but because it is good to resist oppression.

I bet there'd be more black atheists if the more blacks had been raised Catholic instead of Protestant. I heard that Catholicism has the lowest retention rate of the Christian sects. From all the ex-Catholic atheists I know, it seems to be true.

As to why it's better in black culture to be a religious criminal than an upstanding atheist, maybe they equate criminal activity with rebelling against "the system," but they think it's wrong to rebel against god. Then again, it probably has more to do with racism in this country. It was it hard or impossible for a person of color to earn an honest wage until relatively recently. Blacks only got equal rights in the 60s. We're only living one or two generations later.

So you'll forgive my irreverence when I say, COULD YOU PLEASE USE PARAGRAPHS!?!?  I can't even begin to decipher that monstrosity because it grates so hard against everything I love about written English.

It's true, Hamby.  I went to edit his post and in edit the paragraphs are there.  I don't see a way to fix it for him.

EDIT:  Figured it out.

For some reason it left your paragraph tags out.  So I had to edit the source code.