Argh. You went there. Here's your award:

Thats why I said "could be" instead of "is." I personally like thunderf00ts video where he states that eternal life is not a gift, but a curse. The first million years might be fun, but what about the billions of years after that, and a billion years after that, eternity after eternity, it will rob you of everything. I like that explanation too, and is the reason I'm not afraid of death, and I find it funny that people generally are. But then again, theists have to be afraid of death because their afterlife includes torture, whether in heaven or hell.

I suspect even getting fucked by supermodels and porn stars might get old after a few million years.

Don't you mean you're sure they didn't CONSCIOUSLY move it? It's been shown people often do subsconsciously.

I'm willing to take that chance.

Sorry I didn't all the posts above, but:

I agree that atheists in general don't have a 'stance on ghosts'... but personally I think the idea of ghosts is bullshit. These ghost sightings seem to happen as often as any weird occurance would by probability. I have also talked to a group of ghost hunters once who said in the couple years they had been doing it, they really hadn't seen anything really convincing.

a ghost is meant to be a inmaterial dead persons so without a body or cells how can light be ommited?

I never understood why people are so afraid of ghosts. Of all the stories I've heard about ghosts all my life, I've never heard of one kicking somebody's ass. And they can't hold a gun or a knife or strap dynamite to themselves. All they ever do is float around saying boo to everyone. Oh my god, I'm so scared. If I ever see one, I'm going to suck him up in the vacuum cleaner.

+1 . i was thinking the same thing while i was reading the post in this thread.

Ghost don't exist though. we would have overwhelming evidence by now if they did. there are just to many people alive and dying for us to not to be seeing them left and right. Tons of ghost stories from times when there were hardly any people (compared to now) if ghost were real the stories would have increased at the same rate population has.

Did you just say "National Geographic did a ghost special'? Are you seriuos? Thats fucking terrible!!! I don't have a tv in my room or cable, so I would never know. Can you link me I have to see that with my own eyes, why would  they do a special on ghosts?

A ghost cannot have abstract thought unless it has a brain. A brain can only survive inside a living body. Once the heart stops beating and supplying blood to the brain, the brain dies. Thoughts, emotions, and personality come from cells and neurons inside the living brain and CANNOT SURVIVE outside the body after the brain is dead.

So, chances are, ghosts exist only in the imagination.

Rick

I'm glad you posted this. My fathers brother had past away on Halloween and since then everyone in my family including cousins and aunts etc. all claimed that they were visited by my uncle. This was the case with my aunt who passed away in April. I was behind my aunts house with my cousin and we were having a few drinks and it so happened that my cousin was standing near me and I has burped and he then said "whoa, does anyone smell that?... its a strong alcohol smell" no one responded including me. He then declared that his mom was with us drinking as well. I didn't inform him that it was just me. A few days later my cousins wife was sitting having dinner and a wok that I had stacked, very carelessly, had moved. She then screamed and said did you guys see that. I then jumped quickly and said that I stacked it on the table but it was not leveled with the rest of the pots/pans. Overall I think that if ghosts are real and would be able to show their presence then they would not spend time knocking stuff down or spraying us with aromas.

If this was a Guam/Taotaomo'na argument then I would elaborate a hell of a lot more.

Here is a brief "wiki" smmary on Taotaomo'na just so you can have an idea. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taotao_Mona

Before dealing with the idea of ghosts, let me ask, what is the essence that you carry around with you that is you? Where does it reside? I think these days, nearly all non-religionists will accept the notion that what makes you you is the interplay between brain and body. All those thoughts that form your background to how you approach the world are stored in your brain. Your view of the world comes through your eyes to your brain. Your attitudes and sentiments are functions of your brain. A person, who is in a coma, no longer has access to those functions of the brain to allow the you inside to function in the outside world. And when your brain stops functioning too long the you in there has gone bye-bye, you are "brain-dead".

When a computer is turned off all the "memories" it has in RAM are lost. Don't we expect this when the brain stops after your body is turned off, when the brain isn't kept supplied with blood after death?

Can you see any existence beyond the physical nature of your body? You can understand every aspect of you through that body and its interrelations with the world. And your brain is the repository of you-ness. What else is there and how can you conceive of that else?

We have the notion of ghosts because of ideas that come to us from an unscientific past. Ghosts are the remnants of religious ideas of a body/soul separation. That these are wrongly believed to be two separate entities allows one to have a soul without a body and therefore ghosts, rather than a body which houses you in its very essence.

The belief in ghosts is a consequence of religious thought, thought that is incoherent and promoted unanalysed in popular media. Ghosts make money for the media, because they tap into remnants of very old traditions from our religious past, traditions that have always manipulated us, the notions of loved ones who are not really gone, of evil ones who are the cause of our woes. But gone is gone. And not gone somewhere: where does the flame go after the candle has burnt out?

spin

My thoughts on the matter are much like Brian's. A large part of my atheism stems from my skepticism. I do not believe in god for the same reason that I do not believe in ghosts, bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster, redneck abducting anal probling aliens, leprechauns, unicorns, ESP, communicating with the dead, and honest politicians....lack of evidence. I apply the same criteria to all claims, giving no special regard for the supernatural. I have in fact used this positon against theists in debate at times when I discovered that they shared my lack of belief in say, bigfoot.  In that regard, said theist and myself share a common need for evidence. The problem is that the theist rejects that need when it comes to their religion.

Your icon makes me want to cry.

"Quantum physics leaves no room for cold fusion, astrology, teleportation, telekinesis,
supernatural phenomena, multiple universes, or faster than light phenomena – the EPR
paradox notwithstanding.*" - Motion Mountain 21st ed. pg. 1216

*An informative account of the world of psychokinesis and the paranormal is given by the
famous professional magician JZ“u« RZ•o†, Flim-žam!, Prometheus Books, Bušffalo, as well as in several of his other books. See also the www.randi.org website.

Ages ago, back when I first began my career as a nurse, I worked at a nursing home in north central Texas as a weekend supervisor. They were short of staff, and so I started doing sort of double duty by working the night shift to help cover for their lack of a second weekend night nurse. The facility consisted of a central rotunda containing the nurses station and 6 halls radiating evenly out from this point. The principle being that the staff can view the activity on each hall from the desk.

Only a couple of nights into this, one of the nurse aids told me about the ghost of hall 2. She told me that a gowned woman could be seen floating from one room to the other down the hall, but when you went to investigate, nothing could be found. Now I wasn't an atheist at this time, and the thought creeped me out a little, but I must have had a grain of skepticism even then, because I had my doubts.

About a month later I got to see the ghost for myself. I had finished my paperwork and was kicked back at the nurses station with my feet on the desk, halfheartedly flirting with one of the cute nurse aids. I was facing mostly toward hall 2, and caught a glance of something blue and mobile floating across the hall, maybe 2 doors from the exit. It looked like a woman in a blue gown, hovering maybe a foot off the floor, floating from one side of the hall to the other.

I bolted upright and asked if anyone saw it. An older nurse aid said " That's the ghost we told you about. ". It had looked too much like a person to me, and so I went to investigate, finding nothing but sleeping residents and empty rooms. The hairs were standing up on the back of my neck.

It was some months later that I found myself working the night of a town festival. Much of the nursing home staff had left their vehicles in the parking lot and had carpooled to the festival grounds. As a result, I had to park at the far side of the building. A little after midnight, I had to return to my car to get something. I noticed a gravel truck pulling into a quarry site on a hill next to the facility, but thought nothing of it until I turned around and saw the trucks headlight reflecting off of the blue and green stained glass windows that circled top of the rotunda of the nursing home.

I ran back inside and asked if anyone had just seen the ghost. Sure enough, they had. I didn't bother explaining how I knew this, but I made a plan.

The next night, I brought a friend to work with me. He was a night owl that I had met through other friends, and we had hit it off well. Turns out that he was also an atheist, but I didn't know that at the time. We had brought a pair of headphone walkie talkies so he could notify me the moment a truck pulled through the gate at the quarry. Other than that, he just sat in his car listening to music and smoking.

Sure enough, right at 12:30, the headphones squawk. The static is too bad for me to hear him, but I know to look down hall 2. Within seconds I caught sight of the ' ghost ', and glanced up at the stained glass above and behind me. It was brightly illuminated from the headlights of the truck. The turn that the truck made at the top of the hill caused the light to shift and made the ' ghost ' move from one side of the hall to the other.

I planned on explaining this to the staff next weekend, but got the opportunity to demonstrate it that same night as another truck pulled in. My friend had pulled his car closer after some of the evening staff left, and I could hear him clearly over the headphones. Better still, he now knew what the gravel trucks looked like, and was able to give us a full minute notice.

When I got the notice, I had the staff, another nurse and three aids, look down the hall at the right time. Then I had them look up at the stained glass windows to see what was happening there. Adding to this, I drug my friend out of his car and had him explain what was going on from his view.

You would think that this would have been the end of it. You would also be wrong to think that. The very same older nurse aid that had first told me about the ghost stood by, shaking her head and pursing her lips through the whole explanation. When we were done, she said " But what about the call lights that come on by theirself? And the laundry barrels that roll when nobody is around them? What about... what about.... what about...?

She was not only unwilling to accept the explanation that was demonstrated for her to be the cause, but she insisted on recounting numerous previously unreported phenomena. The other 2 aids and nurse soon began to chime in their own experiences, most of which could be explained by uneven floors, ancient wiring, and practical jokes. They didn't want a rational, natural, mundane explanation. They wanted their ghosts.

Years later my baby brother introduced me to one of his new girlfriends. Turned out that she was working as a nurse aid at the same nursing home. When she learned that I had worked there before, the first thing out of her mouth was, naturally " Did you ever see the ghost of hall 2? ".  I just rolled my eyes.

Well, first let me wrap my mind around quantum physics.. then I'll get back to you on ghosts.  But seriously, just think of how different the world would be if Ghosts were a fact of reality?  Until Casper has a seat in the U.N. I'll hold my conclusion that Ghosts are just an extention of animistic beliefs.

That's something I've been trying to get out of you. You've replaced one dogma with another.

spin

You have progressed far enough to realize you are defending dogma. That is good.

For my first post.....

I think this is only a discussion because some brains stop functioning while thier host is still living (i.e. Living Brain Donors).

Let's first define Ghost n.

1. The spirit of a dead person, especially one believed to appear in bodily likeness to living persons or to haunt former habitats.
2. The center of spiritual life; the soul.
3. A demon or spirit.
4. A returning or haunting memory or image.
5. 1. A slight or faint trace: just a ghost of a smile.
   2. The tiniest bit: not a ghost of a chance.
6. A faint, false image, as:
   1. A secondary image on a television or radar screen caused by reflected waves.
   2. A displaced image in a photograph caused by the optical system of the camera.
   3. A false spectral line caused by imperfections in the diffraction grating.
   4. A displaced image in a mirror caused by reflection from the front of the glass.
7. Informal. A ghostwriter.
8. 1. A nonexistent publication listed in bibliographies.
   2. A fictitious employee or business.
9. Physiology. A red blood cell having no hemoglobin.

Assuming we are working with definition 1 or 2 here we are saying that humans have souls which are imparted exclusively by a higher power I believe.

Since (I think) we agree that since there is no higher power, there cannot be a soul and therefor no ghosts.

Happy Belated Winter Solstice everyone!

I KNEW IT was someone! 

Not a believer in ghosts, except you should see me in shorts, I'm easily mistaken for Casper!