Having always been me it's quite easy, actually,  ...but please don't let me interrupt your sermon.

Agreed.   I know the Bible because I was formerly a practicing fundamentalist Christian who read my "holy scriptures" twice a day for over twenty five years.  It was my scrutiny of scripture that eventually led to the ultimate destruction of my faith.

As far as understanding the Bible is concerned well all I can say is that even Christians themselves disagree perpetually as to how to interpret scripture, hence the ever growing number of schisms that erupt within denominations concerning the role of women as clergy, attitudes toward homosexuals, etc.

Consensus is something that rarely exists among the far flung interpretations of the various Christian sects.

Any christian who can't spell "inevitability" is a fraud. Think about it.

Or maybe a dyslexic, and we know that god hates them! (Or is that homosexuals he hates? I always get these arbitrary points of division mixed up). Anyway, it's reassuring to hear that incontinence brings me one step nearer to satan. At my age one likes to know who one's (new) friends are likely to be.

What a hateful little creep this momentary dude person is. A perfect example of his faith.

Absolutely classic.New sig me thinks.

To answer your questions, before I bid this board farewell, I don't utterly reject the Hebrew interpretation of the Bible.  The book of Matthew especially, and in fact, all of the Gospels, give testimony as to Christ's fullfillment of the Hebrew canon.  And while you question why I believe the majority of Hebrews missed him, you have stripped me of my only source as you have chosen to reject the new testement, the only source of explaination I would give.

1)  Neither Jesus or the Christian position have rejected any of the Hebrew beliefs about Messiah but rather have excepted the postponement of "the day of the Lord" or the coming judgment for the purpose of spreading the Gospel, that is, the call to amnesty for those who believe before judgment is rendered on this rebellious world.

2)  Most Jews missed Jesus because they were self-righteous, ritualistic, racist, and legalistic intellectuals that would strip God's law of its heart and use it not for its intended purposes--to bring men into confrontation with their sinful inclinations and their need for God's forgiveness--but rather add loopholes, subclauses, and addendums to it in order to use it as a guage of relative righteousness to allow some men to boast above others.  The very same has been done with the Bible and with the Christian faith throughout the years but then and now, the true believers remain broken and contrite at heart in confrontation with their own tendency toward faithlessness, selfishness, and foolishness, all rooted in what the entire Bible (both Hebrew and Christian canons) point to being rooted in the lies and attacks of Satan, the one who currently rules this world invisibly through deception and fear, and whom Christ has ultimately judged in his demonstration of sinlessness, and it's subsequent power over death itself.  He then offers us that same record of sinlessness through faith in him, giving the entire world the opportunity to turn from darkness, deception, and death unto truth, light, and life.

The problem of the Jews, of the human condition in general, and unfortunately, of most in the present Church is one as old as the sin of Satan himself.....Pride.  They would rather live in perpetual darkness than admit they had been decieved and turn to the source of their redemption.  The Jews at the time of Christ, as well as religious Jews of today, hold to the boast that they are special to God because of something inheirently good in themselves above and beyond humanity in general.  The fact of te matter is, they are special to God for the sake of their few forefathers who sought him with faith and humility.  It is His Word to them than makes them precious to Him, not their goodness.  And he chose them not to exalt them above humanity, but rather to set them apart as a special people and carriers of the oracles of God, the instructive backdrop on which to reveal all of humanity's source of redemption--the man Jesus Christ.  It was for this reason the people and the temple endured through the empirical efforts of the Assyrians, Babylonians, Medes, Persians, Macedonians, Seleucids, Ptolemys and Romans to exist as a tiny little people with a tiny little land, yet with special religious privaledge at the time when Roman Rule was absolute and had the attention of the entire globe.

Desbelief in Jesus is not an issue of what he said or did, it is a problem with pride.  In order to believe Him, you must first accept that God is good and his word is absolute, his promises unforgotten, and his judgements fair--but beyond this, you must first accept that the world, and you specifically have been the victim of deception because in your heart you have, withoud valid reason, chosen to put God's goodness to the test, and take your chances with disobedience--whether to conscience or to Law; ultimately to Him.

 Pr 15:33 ¶ The fear of the LORD is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility.

 Job 22:29 When men are cast down, then thou shalt say, There is lifting up; and he shall save the humble person.

 Ps 34:2 My soul shall make her boast in the LORD: the humble shall hear thereof, and be glad.

 Isa 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

This is the Gospel the only way I understand it.  Be confronted with it.  Recieve it unto salvation, spurn it unto eternal destruction.  The choice is yours.

I hope I have adequately answered your question.  Some introspection would be best to follow. But my dssassociation with this board is final.  If God has called some other soul to minister the truth to those here, I will let him be drawn in after I make my leave.

 1Co 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

In order for Christianity to be true Jesus would need to fulfill the prophecies of the Hebrew Bible. However, the Jews argue Jesus does not do so. What I expected from you was to address those Jewish prophecies  in detail and indicate how they misinterpreted their scriptures. As for example, Isaiah 11:2-5 and Jeremiah 33:15. Again, you must use a version of the Hebrew Bible for this, such as the JPS 1917 edition, and not KJV. There are many other misinterpretations made by Christians, but it is your claim to prove not mine to disprove.

The question remains, where did the Jews misinterpret their scriptures of the Moshiach and misunderstand Jesus fit their prophecies.

Then, you must believe Jesus has established a  government  which is the center of government for both gentiles and Jews. See Isaiah 2:2-4 and Isaiah 11:10.

You must also think all the Jews have returned to Israel as in Isaiah 11:11-12, Jeremiah 23:8, 30:3

You must think the entire world recognizes the Jewish God and Jewish belief as the only true religion as in Isaiah 2, Micah 4, Zechariah 14.

This is typical of ad hominem attacks on the Jews. I asked you to show me in Jewish scripture where they misinterpreted and your answer is they are self righteous, racist, and ritualistic.

I could say the typical Christian has his head stuck in the ground and has his ears filled with mud and it would be as valid as your defense above. You avoided answering with attacks on their character and understanding of their scriptures from which yours is derived.

You continue to miss the point. The same prophets you claim to predict Jesus continually prophesied a Moshiach as the Jews have described in their beliefs. Where did Isaiah and Jeremiah go wrong in their expectations of a messiah? In order for your claim of Jesus to be the messiah these prophets and others have to be wrong. So explain. Stop using ad hominem attacks on the Jewish people as well, it gains nothing for your position.

The Jews clearly accept God is good and his word is true or they would not have put forth their necks to Pilate as in Josephus over the standards. They would not have fought to the death at Masada. You have without valid reason rejected Jewish interpretation and substituted Pauline deception.

You have answered nothing at all and have retreated after doing nothing to support Christian rejection of Jewish understanding.

As an atheist I clearly reject all of the god beliefs of the god of Abe, however you have shown better than I why Christianity is completely false. Your hatred of the Jews seethes in your responses when you accuse them of racism, self righteousness, and pride. You presented nothing at all to support Christianity as a valid derivative from Jewish belief. If this is the best you can do you are right to leave.

All the poor soldiers who've come back from Iraq having lost a limb and your christian will never parade them with the idea of god healing them. They just end up in the back room. Asthma, shite, who gives a flying fig about asthma when the best god can do for some is a prosthetic limb. It sure ain't a case of god helps those who help themselves.

God, now god, he just hate them amputees. He ain't never gonna fix them up like he fix up them asthma boys.

spin