Thanks for the laugh.

Also, church is tommorow, so I have a few options here, and I haven't fully explained my situation yet.  Both my parents claim to be Christians.  My dad goes to church with the same zeal I used to have, going several times a week to study, listen to the preacher, etc.  But my mom on the other hand, does not go to church but studies her bible each day.  I have not yet broken the habit of going to church, etc. and have not told my parents about my thoughts yet either.  I know it's coming, maybe I should start right now.  The only thing is, I have only been watching videos gearing towards athiesm for 2 days, but I liked them.  I don't have the resources on me to defend athiesm at this moment, not just from my parents, but from all the other people at church who know me as a Christian.

Like I said, church is tommorow.  I do have the choice of going, though.  Not that my parents will be happy with me not going to church, but eventually everyone at church will find out, too.

And looking at what I'm writing, I'd have to say that what's holding me back may be more..... Them.  The church, my parents.

Still, there's more to it than that.  Right now I have to decide what's more important - my mind, or people who don't call me when I"m down.

If there is a God, then wouldn't he tell someone to call you?  And wouldn't that person call you?  If there is a God, then why do I wait day after day for someone to call me and nobody does?  Even though they have my phone number?  ... Sorry, a bit of my life.

When you believe there's a god, you have to wrestle with why in the world would he not have someone call you yesterday, today, and eventually, tommorow.

However, when you realize god is imaginary, all those feelings just go poof!  You don't have to struggle with why this isn't happening or that is because god is imaginary!

.... I think my rant's done, and although there's still that little speck of uncertainty about doing this, which is probably withdrawal, I'm sure it'll go away.  I'm ready to begin again, as an athiest.

Well, It wasn't the toaster.  Edit: It was a combination of factual videos geared towards athiesm and a lack of support from Christians.

Yeah.  I knew you were kidding about the toaster bit.

Anyways, I just went outside and looked at a leaf and realized I know little, if nothing, about nature.  I'm starting to realize that I don't think as rationally as I could, especially on things pertaining to religion.

Anyways, a bit more about how I came into religion (for anyone who's bored).  I was raised going to church as a young boy and didn't like it.  Eventually, since I was too much of a frustration to keep up with (or something along those lines), she stopped making me go to church at about 10.  At about 14 I started looking for a church again, and eventually found one I liked.  After a few months I accepted Jesus, and that was 2 or 3 years ago. 

Now I'm smarter, and I plan to stay smarter.

Edit:  The topic says Thanks for the advice so here it is: Thank You.

Hi Kirkby, and welcome.

Despite the tone of the debate that exists, here on this site and elsewhere, between "theism" and "atheism", the key to an individual regaining control of their critical faculties lies not with how convincing one side is over the other (a no-contest in my view in any case) but in how comfortable you feel on the issue with yourself at any moment in time. Intellectual honesty has obviously become a factor in deciding that with you, so you're already on a winner.

If adherence to a faith raises questions within you that demand answers, and if you find that representatives of that faith are all the more pleased simply to give you answers which raise more questions, then you are already on the path to enlightenment. What's more, you've opted to take responsibility for your own intellect, something that the religious fear - and for good reason.

If you notice that their "answers" contain less and less readily identifiable sense, and that their eagerness to deliver those answers grows exponentially in terms of vehemence as your questions grow in profundity, then you have begun to think critically and on your own terms - the crucial step. You have also begun of course to expose their own insecurities, but you'll see that yourself with time.

If, at the end of the process, you find yourself rejecting not just the theological constructs foisted on you as an individual in your life, but all examples of such behaviour by anyone anywhere, then you can say with some justification that you have an atheistic viewpoint. You may even find that knowledge about yourself liberating. But don't think on that basis you have "joined a club" of like-minded individuals. All that unites atheists is their refusal to waste time on religious delusions (except sometimes to explain why it is necessary to do so). The other bit - making sense of the universe, life etc etc - still awaits you, but at least unburdened by superstition you have a better chance of making some meaningful progress, whatever your own interests, intellectual abilities or even personal bias might dictate that road to be.

Well done on making what is a brave, and crucial, first step. From here on in you'll be stumbling like the rest of us, but at least we're honest enough to admit it!

(PS - in Scandinavian languages, "kirkby" means "church town" - was that your or your parents' humour at work?)

Yes, well good luck on that journey. Whether you remain even only nominally a member of any supposed "faith" is far less important than that you take the courage to pursue your goal to think clearly. For what it's worth you seem eminently capable of just that - bon voyage!

He won't need to heat his food where he's going if he doesn't 'love' Jesus:

Thank you for that thoughtful advice, and the compliment.  I do appreciate it, and I will look for an article or some other form of media on an athiest activity that I might attend.

Another issue: My Christian friends at church.  Even though I mention earlier that we don't maintain phone contact or anything other than Church and Church outings, I would like your advice and opinions on how to handle my relationships with them, because I am 1. One of the oldest in the group and 2. was possibly considered as one of the wiser youths there.

Perhaps it is best to be myself, while remaining intellectually honest with myself as well, ready to learn from everything and everyone.

Thanks for everything.

Perhaps you should talk to someone you know and are friends with. And I mean actual friends, not aquaintances like the people from church seem to be. Perhaps your parents.

Well, thank you all for your advice.

As for tommorow:

I will go to Sunday School as usual in the morning, and pay close attention to detail, keeping intellectual honesty with myself at all times.  Then I will go to the 11:00 service, sit in the back row and observe everything during the service.  I will not try to draw attention to myself, at least not just yet.  Then, since I normally go on Sunday nights as well, it would probably be best, at least for now, to go on Sunday nights for the Youth activities and keep intellectual honesty.

That's tommorow's plan.  Pretty basic, basically.  Sound good?

    Don't   forget to post us tomorrow and tell us how it went. btw  welcome to rationality you'll just love it here.

See Title.

I went to Sunday School and everything went well there.  However, when I went to the 11:00 service, which is starting right now (I just came home), I realized that I forgot it was the first Sunday of the month, meaning that it was Communion Sunday.  Now, I am a truthful person, and to stay true to myself I had to decide whether to stay and not partake of the bread and grape juice and be seen not partaking (since I've done so before), or to partake and lie to myself, since I have started a new journey that I intend to stay on: the journey of Athiesm and the pursuit of knowledge and intellectual honesty.

Also, the religion still has somewhat of a hold on me.  That feeling in the stomach that wants me to stay with religion.  Still, I wish to pursue Athiesm.

Next Sunday there is no communion, so I will stay for the sermon.

If I think of anything else I will post it.

Thanks everyone for your help.

Edit:  It was an on-the-spot decision to leave, so there mightv'e been better options available.  However, I'm home now.

    Oh man, I can't control my quote button !!

It's Monday. 

In response to one of your comments, Boon Docks: There are 2 services, and both of them would've had communion (as an added tidbit).  Anyways, I'm looking into an athiest event right now.

By the way, at this moment I go to a Baptist Church and I've generally gone Sunday morning, Sunday night, and Wednesday night, so until I come out of the closet, or they find me in there... Well, they're just used to me going so much.

Onto somthing better.  I found something called "The Wheel of Power", a method of "proving" the bible that uses circular reasoning.  However, I found it quite absurd.  Perhaps you've seen it before.  It goes like this:

Christian:  The bible is the word of god.  (They make the claim, therefore the burden of proof is on them.  I am correct in assuming this, right?)

Skeptic: How can you be sure it's the word of god?

Christian: Because the bible tells us so.

Skeptic: But why believe the bible?

Christian: The bible is infallible.

Skeptic: How can you be sure it's infallible?

Christian: The bible is the word of god.

And it can go on and on and on.  Like I said, I'm sure some of you, if not a lot of you, have seen this or heard this before.

It's very weak reasoning because all it proves is that if the bible is right, then the bible is right.  Therefore, to prove the bible right with verses such as John 1:1, "In the beggining was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." proves nothing.  First one must prove that the bible is scientifically and historically accurately for it to be credible.

Comments, questions, scrutinizations, corrections, etc. are always welcome.

Thank you.