Here's a mystery, why do people insist on treating us like we're idiots? [YOU RESPOND]
Offline From: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 12:42 PM
Subject: [General Question] Embrace the mystery
Dean sent a message using the contact form at
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It seems like you don't understand the power of mystery and the "God" that
can be experienced within the mystery. You saying that there is no "God" is
sourced form the same blind faith as those who truly believe that there is
a personal "God". Its not about living in the know, it's about living in
the mystery. Once you embrace the mystery you will truly have the
experience of "God" and you will no longer need faith. You think your lack
of spirituality is because of your intellect, when in fact it's because of
emotional reasons. Moreover, if you are using science to debunk God, than
you must not know of quantum physics and the master minds behind its
theories. Quantum physician are some of most spiritual and people on this
earth. You should focus for your energy on organized religion and leave
"God" out of it-- that is where the battle should be fought.
FROM SAPIENT TO DEAN: Read this page, then tell us we say "there is no 'God' again: Am I Agnostic or Atheist? Or maybe google search this site, then tell us we don't know of quantum physics. You're 0 for 2, we'll focus our efforts on the irrationalities we choose, even the ones you hold near and dear... like God.
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"You don't understand how to experience mystery..."
*Head Explodes*
Unless you grew up on another planet, yours is just a diluted version of their personal god. Does your lack of conviction make it more convincing somehow?
Sing the praises of not knowing, then simply assert. You're inconsistent. I like that. That's why I'll kill you last.
Your argument is at best an appeal from authority. Realistically, a lot of references from physicists about "god" have been metaphoric. Your acknowledgment of their authority contradicts your main premise, as their curiosity doesn't lead to satisfaction that things are merely "mysterious," but the desire to unravel said puzzle.
God is indeed a word for the gaps (mystery), and yes lots of gaps, and so "God" exists.
Quote OP - "You should focus for your energy on organized religion and leave "God" out of it-- that is where the battle should be fought."
I agree, The problem we are having is one of definitions. Come back Dean, we have work to do.
God of Abe isn't even close .... fuck all of that. Religion is ungodly dogma shit poison. Why make shit up about the mystery, the awe, gawed. Yeah leave "God" out of it.
Thing is, most of the west , think religion is about god, so we advertise god is shit, to get healing communication going ..... and so I say "fuck god, fuck a xain jesus", because I AM GOD, I AM CHRIST, AS YOU.
Help kill god of abraham ... all superstition. Keep the awe. Go science .... fuck religion.
From an ancient atheist , "I have not come to bring peace (with the hypocrites)
Atheism Books.
Why must we embrace it in order to know it? Nothing else in this world requires a person to blindly accept the notion of believing in something that cannot be explained in hopes that it will be factual. What is the benefit of living in "mystery" than living in knowledge. Hypothetically speaking, if I believed in God then I would be taught to believe that God made us exactly who we are in his image, so why would he gives us intelligent minds only to expect us not to use them?
Do you realize how much sense this does NOT make?
Silly_ Mommy makes sense ....
I like sense , thanks ....
[Once you embrace the mystery you will truely have the experience of "God" and you will no longer need faith.]
You Dean Massee clearly have no idea how idiotic and foolish that line makes you. To have a god without faith is what if not assinine? To have a mystery in order to experience a non-faith based god means WHAT? You are in dire need of a dictionary!!!
I don't like mysterys; I like answers. I do not take any answers on faith and your 'god' like any other 'god' invented is nothing but faith.
"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."
VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"
If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?
But didn't the OP say you don't need faith ? What dictionary has an agreed definition of god ? When it comes to god, no dictionary will do justice. As in the ancient Tao, it was written, " God cannot be named" .....
But I beg to differ , what about we. 
Talkin bout god always gets silly, and religion totally sucks , then there is lots of philosophy to bash on too .... and the scientists to keep honest.
Just saying , let's focus on our mind, and speak only your truth.
Atheism Books.
Mystery means I get to search for answers. You're right, I don't need faith for that, in fact faith very much gets in the way.
One of the things about what you wrote that does rankle me a bit: What does QM have to do with "god"? Do you understand QM at all? Because, no matter the postulates you pick, to equate any part of QM to "god" requires some elastic definitions for "god". I could as soon define one of my pet cats as "god". (not that any of them would disagree.)
Until someone out there can give a good definition for "god" and then back it with real, testable evidence, I will continue to fail to have a belief in god, in exactly the same way i fail to have a belief in unicorns, Santa Claus, fae, and rap as music.
Well, ok, the last example was just silly.
Ok, so... It's been swell, but the swelling's gone down. C-Ya!
"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray
You want to know why we criticise theists? First off, we don't think you are an idiot. We do think on some issues any individual can make, are idiotic.
The difference between Penn & Teller and Uri Gullible is that Penn clearly admits that the "magic" he preforms is a trick. We don't think you are an idiot, but we do think idiots sold you a lemon as far as the claims you believe now.
The difference between Penn and Cris Angel is that Penn is not a liar. He clearly tells you what you are about to see is an ILLUSION.
The problem with religion is that people cant separate Thor from Santa from Jesus and each club seems to think that their brand of mind grinding will bring you to a magical utopia where farts smell like roses.
I've smelled a fart and I have smelled a rose, and religion is nothing more than a fart sold as a rose.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Actually, Criss Angel has also said that what he does is an illusion. A damn good one, but still an illusion. The fact still further your point though. He scoffs at fellow magicians that try to make claims of authenticity and actually gets really angry at those claiming to speak with the dead. I can't help but wonder how pretending to speak to the dead is that much different from self-proclaimed prophets and the heads of various churches who claim to speak to God. Not really much different, IMO...
That's why John Edwards is the biggest douche in the universe.
Ok so why doesn't his admission you claim here, in this post, make it on his show week to week? When I have watched his show there is NO DISCLAIMER that what he is about to do is a "trick". The only disclaimer he has is, "don't try this at home".
Maybe it is a contractual thing between him and the network. If there is one thing I can give kudos to Fox for, was their "Magic secrets revealed".
The producers of that series and the "magician" who revealed the tricks were threatened. To me this is the same bullshit reaction that Uri had to RRS.
Uri, "HOW DARE YOU EXPOSE MY LIE"
RRS, "Sucks to be you"
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Big difference is that professional magicians don't claim to be capable of actual magic and only charge money as "entertainers" - many even call themselves "illusionists. " Uri Geller on the other hand, pretends he really is capable of paranormal things - and many people believe him. No adult without some sort of mental impairment believes that stage magicians are capable of anything of the sort.
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Ok, only judging from what I see here Cris is challenging a "Charleton".
But, I have seen his show "Mind Freak" and it does little as far as script is concerned to clue the viewer in on the fact that it is an illusion.
If I were 5 years old and believed in Santa and watch that show I would most likely believe that Cris could levitate himself on a Vegas Sidwalk.
I am merely saying that Penn has done far more to clue people in. If Cris is doing the same, I don't see it.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Well part of it is entertainment, which is what he does, he is an entertainer and an illusionist. That he has stated before in his shows. Now he does have a show called Mindfreak: Secretes revealed which he does show how some of his illusions are performed, of course he isn't going to show stuff like levitation or walking on water (yeah jesus believers how was that miracle for a mere mortal, non deity that can walk on water) as most likely many of these are trade secretes, now penn and teller are entertainers as well however their is a different sort in which they are out to show how it is done. That's the difference between the 2.
You're absolutely right about Penn. They (meaning him and Teller) are constantly demostrating that what they are doing is an illusion, a mere trick. Criss Angel makes a lot of money by performing his stunts but he said in a personal interview (currently trying to find it via YouTube) that his stunts are all illusions and defintely not real. I didn't know he had a revealed a couple of his "secrets" but at the time of that particular interview, he was still very mum.
I agree that if we were 5-year-olds we would most definitely believe his tricks to be real. Then again, I also believed in God for almost two decades. Sarcastically speaking, Criss Angel has done more impressive stunts than God!