I was baptized catholic as an infant, a religious rite that I think should be illegal, I went through all the religious rites, communion, confirmation.  I think that is all except for the marriage.  I left that organization before they could do that to me.  NEVER in my wildest dreams have I ever thought of getting that close to the pope.  do you really think anyone can get close enough to him to do such a thing?  I doubt it.

                                              That would be funny

It would depend on the pope in question. I honestly believe that if it were Ratzinger, that yeah,  the person would be excommunicated, and quite painfully, too. John Paul II, however, would probably have been kinda shocked and then would have laughed it off as a childish prank.

     Still laughing ....   he has his security guards, but good luck.  I'll be watching from the safety of my home, providing the Gestapo doesn't track us down first.

right, he is a registered Nazi after all, despite his avowal he only joined to keep from getting killed.

    Just for the S & G's how does a person get excommunicated?  Having done almost everything else with that damn place/organization I almost feel left out.

bullshit.  i never read about any boy being killed for not joining hitler youth.  socially ostracized maybe, but not killed.

btw, john paul ii wasn't as cute and kindly as a lot of people think.  he was extremely media savvy and knew exactly what image to create.  read any of hans kung's books on christianity.  he rarely has a kind word for john paul.  he was no more liberal than ratzinger by any means.

i'm not into popes in general, but if i had to choose a good one, it'd definitely be john xxiii. 

i don't think he leaves the pope-mobile much in public... they also probably have giant windshield wipers on the thing.  i'm sure some pope at some point in time has had a tomato tossed at him.

i didn't know how to answer because you can be excommunicated for physical force against his holiness, but is a plastic tub of active cultures equal to force?  i guess it depends what speed it hits him at. 

as far as an atheist trying to get excommunicated to send a message, i'd personally prefer not to do something that involved violence.  while yogurt seems harmless enough for all we know he could have his mouth open and be lactose intolerant or the little plastic cup could splinter on his fancy hat and poke him in the eye.  i'd rather be excommunicated for desecrating the eucharist or abortion (to clarify - i would not go out and get pregnant just to prove a point.)

the problem with excommunication is that it's not permanent - it's simply a measure meant to pressure someone into compliance.  madonna was excommunicated, wasn't she?

examples of things you can be excommunicated for include: desecration of the eucharist, getting an abortion or being an accomplice to one, a priest violating the seal of the confessional, revealing secret information without the pope's consent, physical force against the pope, creating a splinter of the catholic church, formally abandoning the faith, maintaining an opinion contrary to the teachings of the catholic church...

pardon.  i was calling bullshit on ratzinger, not you.

don't they always? Honestly,  I'm glad my fundie sister usually ignores my existence when she goes off on one of those rants. religion is a disease, and even when someone religious is right about one thing, it's no good, because they are so intrinsically wrong about everything else.

So spitting out the cracker and stomping on it would be a good way to get excommunicated!

So a good way would be making a Blasphemy Challenge Video and forwarding it to the pope?

[email protected]

...but then again, I know that I'm already excommunicated.  I was baptized into the Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-Day Saints.  In Rome's eyes, I therefore have professed a non-Christian religion, and am thus excommunicated by that very fact itself.   Of course, since I now publicly profess atheism, and have thus compounded my deep heresies with total apostasy, I...well...I'm still excommunicated.  Not much effort required.

Conor

Asshat, you aren't banned yet? If you found me and spit at me you'd have a broken nose. E mailing the pope a blasphmy challenge video is very different (by the way what I posted is really the pope's e mail!)

The Amish certainly don't.

Well, I'm a fairly big intimidating dark dude, and marine corps vet. Now, I don't go around looking for fights, and I have no desire to actually spit on you, but I'm sure if I actually did, you wouldn't try and break my nose, but your rationality would kick in, and you'd probably think I was a crazy mother fucker, who if crazy enough to spit on you, would be crazy enough to do a lot worse, so it would perhaps be wiser to walk way. 

But like I said, I have no desire to spit on you, and if I actually did run in to you at some humanist function or whatever else, I'd probably shake your hand, and say "hey, buddy how's life?".

Well, I was talking about pouring yogurt on the pope's head, not sending him a blasphmy challenge video.

why is it necessary to add "dark"?

and marine corps doesn't automatically make you a badass.  one guy i graduated high school with joined the corps because he spent his whole high school career playing pc games all night and sleeping through all his classes.  it's a wonder he graduated.  anyway, last time i saw him, a few months ago, he was as whiney and bitchy as ever.  granted, he was slightly fitter looking, but not exactly major dad.

anybody else remember major dad?

Any Catholic can be excommunicated the intent is to force repentance or control behavior.

Depending on the reason for the excommunication after an act of repentance it is lifted by the appropriate level, though sometimes public repentance is required.

See this link for more.

I would totally put that on my resume. Heretic - Documentation provided...

Matt,  you don't seem to understand.  According to the catholic church, anyone who isn't a catholic is an apostate.  This includes protestants, muslims, hindu, buddhist, and...jew.  Remember, 'in the beginning' the followers of Jesus (lets pretend I believe there was a jesus) were trying to convert jews.  There was no 'new testament' only the Torah (& etc) of the jewish law.

It was Saul (Paul) of Tarsus who had the 'revelation'/dream that the gentiles should be converted to the new religion and christianity was created...specifically Roman Catholic Christianity.  It doesn't matter that there were other jewish/christian sects that may even have preceeded the RC version.   They either were absorbed or destroyed as heresies. 

That's what RCC does to those who don't believe what they preach.  They brand you a heretic (which wasn't always a bad word and just means 'school of thought') and kill you.  Recall the inquisitions carried out with great enthusiasm by the RCC by several specially commissioned religious Orders (Dominican/Franciscan).

Nobody cares now about being excommunicated...they will just join a protestant church and still partake in the canabalistic rites (eucharist).  Big difference, they don't have to confess to a priest and do penance (Hail Mary/Our Father/etc) to be forgiven. 

It's not like in the 'dark ages' when people believed all illness was from demons.  Then, if your sovereign was excommunicated...no priest could give any citizen communion.   The average person (ignorant/uneducated/ and superstitious) fully believed without a regular 'dose' of the eucharist, they would build up evil in themselves and die and go to hell.  All because their sovereign pissed off the pope.

I forget which king had to go begging on his knees to plead the pope's forgiveness so that the excommunicaton against his kingdom would be lifted. 

Then kings started getting smarter and the power of the papacy (which is a fake and unbiblical) began to wain.  However, never forget that catholics have been indoctrinated from birth to believe that their pope is christ's vicar on earth and is infallible.  If the pope says there must be a crusade to convert all humans to the 'one true faith' catholics will rise to the occassion.

Source: Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.

"There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved."

Source: Papal BullUnam Sanctam, by Pope Boniface VIII, 1302. "We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff."

Source: Papal Bull Cantate Domino , by Pope Eugene IV, 1441.

"The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church."

Source: The Church Teaches, by Jesuit Fathers of St. Mary's College, St. Marys, Kansas, published by TAN Books and Publishers, Inc., Rockford, Illinois, 61105, Copyright 1973, pages 8-9.

Excerpt from the Creed of the Council of Trent (1564):

"I unhesitatingly accept and profess all the doctrines (especially those concerning the primacy of the Roman Pontiff and his infallible teaching authority) handed down, defined, and explained by the sacred canons and ecumenical councils and especially those of this most holy Council of Trent (and by the ecumenical Vatican Council). And at the same time I condemn, reject, and anathematize everything that is contrary to those propositions, and all heresies without exception that have been condemned, rejected, and anathematized by the Church. I, N., promise, vow, and swear that, with God's help, I shall most constantly hold and profess this true Catholic faith, outside which no one can be saved and which I now freely profess and truly hold. With the help of God, I shall profess it whole and unblemished to my dying breath; and, to the best of my ability, I shall see to it that my subjects or those entrusted to me by virtue of my office hold it, teach it, and preach it. So help me God and his holy Gospel. [The words in parentheses in this paragraph are now inserted into the Tridentine profession of faith by order of Pope Pius IX in a decree issued by the Holy Office, January 20, 1877 "(Acta Sanctae Sedis, X [1877], pp. 71 ff.).]

Source: Encyclical: SINGULARI QUIDEM, ON THE CHURCH IN AUSTRIA, of Pope Pius IX, March 17, 1856.

4. "... There is only one divine faith which is the beginning of salvation for mankind and the basis of all justification, the faith by which the just person lives and without which it is impossible to please God and to come to the community of His children.[2] There is only one true, holy, Catholic church, which is the Apostolic Roman Church. There is only one See founded in Peter by the word of the Lord,[3] outside of which we cannot find either true faith or eternal salvation. He who does not have the Church for a mother cannot have God for a father, and whoever abandons the See of Peter on which the Church is established trusts falsely that he is in the Church.[4] Thus, there can be no greater crime, no more hideous stain than to stand up against Christ, than to divide the Church engendered and purchased by His blood, than to forget evangelical love and to combat with the furor of hostile discord the harmony of the people of God.[5]

2. Rom 1; Heb 11; Council of Trent, session 6, chap. 8.
3. St. Cyprian, epistle 43.
4. Ibid., de unitat. Eccl.
5. Ibid., epistle 72."

Source: Encyclical: Quanto Conficiamur Moerore of Pope Pius IX, On Promotion of False Doctrines, August 10, 1863.

8. Also well known is the Catholic teaching that no one can be saved outside the Catholic Church. Eternal salvation cannot be obtained by those who oppose the authority and statements of the same Church and are stubbornly separated from the unity of the Church and also from the successor of Peter, the Roman Pontiff, to whom "the custody of the vineyard has been committed by the Savior."

Source: Pope Leo XIII, Encyclical Letter: Sapientiae Christianae (On the Chief Duties of Christians as Citizens), from paragraph 22, dated January 10, 1890, trans. in The Great Encyclical Letters of Pope Leo XIII (New York: Benziger, 1903), p. 193.

But the supreme teacher in the Church is the Roman Pontiff. Union of minds, therefore, requires, together with a perfect accord in the one faith, complete submission and obedience of will to the Church and to the Roman Pontiff, as to God Himself.

Source: Encyclical of Pope Leo XIII: SATIS COGNITUMON, THE UNITY OF THE CHURCH, June 29, 1896.

8. "... It was thus the duty of all who heard Jesus Christ, if they wished for eternal salvation, not merely to accept His doctrine as a whole, but to assent with their entire mind to all and every point of it, since it is unlawful to withhold faith from God even in regard to one single point. ...
9. The Church, founded on these principles and mindful of her office, has done nothing with greater zeal and endeavour than she has displayed in guarding the integrity of the faith. Hence she regarded as rebels and expelled from the ranks of her children all who held beliefs on any point of doctrine different from her own. The Arians, the Montanists, the Novatians, the Quartodecimans, the Eutychians, did not certainly reject all Catholic doctrine: they abandoned only a certain portion of it. Still who does not know that they were declared heretics and banished from the bosom of the Church? In like manner were condemned all authors of heretical tenets who followed them in subsequent ages. "There can be nothing more dangerous than those heretics who admit nearly the whole cycle of doctrine, and yet by one word, as with a drop of poison, infect the real and simple faith taught by our Lord and handed down by Apostolic tradition" (Auctor ).

"The practice of the Church has always been the same, as is shown by the unanimous teaching of the Fathers, who were wont to hold as outside Catholic communion, and alien to the Church, whoever would recede in the least degree from any point of doctrine proposed by her authoritative Magisterium. Epiphanius, Augustine, Theodore :, drew up a long list of the heresies of their times. St. Augustine notes that other heresies may spring up, to a single one of which, should any one give his assent, he is by the very fact cut off from Catholic unity. "No one who merely disbelieves in all (these heresies) can for that reason regard himself as a Catholic or call himself one. For there may be or may arise some other heresies, which are not set out in this work of ours, and, if any one holds to one single one of these he is not a Catholic" (S. Augustinus, , n. 88).

Source: The Catechism of the Catholic Church- online.

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

"846     How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it."

If you don't accept catholicism and remain an apostate, you are liable for any persecution the catholic church deems appropriate...and believe me excommunication is the least of your worries. 

Attacking the dignity of the pope's office (sic) without causing physical injury to his person is still a temporal assault according to the church's own rules. These are based on Thomas Aquinas's musings on the matter which are still taken very seriously by the big hat and frock brigade. According to Tom excommunication could never be a fair punishment to be used against temporal assault.

However - and it's crucial here - the will and intent of the assaulter should also be judged. If that is deemed to be evil then all bets are off and excommunication is back on the agenda again.

In recent times the excommunication thing has been scaled way down. At first they introduced "mild" forms of it which amounted to suspensions but now they only dish it out if someone is literally asking for it. It's not really a punishment either any more, more a recognition of what the subject has already demonstrated by their actions, and completely reversible if the perp keeps his or her head down, mouth shut, and serves his or her time. Getting back in depends on what level of frock wearer it was that threw you out (local gangs of bishops can decree it unilaterally). You just say sorry basically and hey presto.

However an attack of any description on the pope would be seen in a very bad light all round, so the guy can well afford to wipe the yoghurt off and smile beatifically back at his assailant offering platitudes of forgiveness. He knows the fucker's days of walking round with yoghurt cartons are well over!

it could have been learned from the inquisition.  or native practises.  or the gringoes.  or any mixture of things.  xenophobia didn't originate with the catholics and will still be around long after they join the ranks of the vestal virgins, mithraists, druids, etc.  the point is, i don't think that catholics across the world would rally to the crimes of a few deranged mexicans and make war on people of all other beliefs.  no disrespect, but that sounds like something straight out of the mind of jack chick.

and i've seen plenty of evidence of catholic intolerance with my own eyes.  also the other way around.  my point is, your initial comments seemed to lump all catholics together and say all they would need is a nod from the pope to make mass warfare.  i see no evidence for that.  shit, the majority of muslims don't make mass warfare, despite what fucktards like bill o'reilly and pat robertson would have you believe, and they actually do have several leaders telling them to.

that doesn't surprise me coming from that fucker, but he's contradicting his own magisterium.  the second vatican council ruled quite clearly that salvation is possible in other religions, but more difficult.  vatican ii also ruled once and for all that the papal authority must submit to the authority of the ecumenical councils, of which vatican ii was one.

that doesn't surprise me.  the anglican church has never held it together very well.  it's no wonder, considering it was basically started so one fat fuck could get a divorce.  the anglican church is as secular as it comes, and it's a fact of human nature that wishy-washy belief systems don't hold people very long.  that's why there are so many more fundies than people in the world council of churches.