The New Atheist Crusaders and their quest for the Unholy Grail
Offline Hey all. It's been a while since I've been on. I appologise, I've been busy.
The title of this forum is the title of a book I just finished reading. It's a catchy title, so I figured it'd be a good way to grab someone's attention on here. The book is written by Becky Garrison.
If her name doesn't sound familiar, that's fine, it shouldn't. So why am I wasting your time telling you about this book? Well, I'm glad you asked. This is a book written by a True Christian. HUH? For all of you who have discussed with me in the past, you understand what I'm talking about and for those of you who haven't you can research my blogs. Caposkia is my name.
Anyway, It's written from the viewpoint of how a true Christian feels about of course the atheists in the world today, but more importantly for you, how she feels about Christians in the world.
This is for all of you arguing with me about how Christians have to be black and white. How you have to follow a religion and there's nothing outside of religion etc. She touches on all of this. I truly think you'll enjoy reading this book and I would like to hear from those of you who have read it if anyone. If not, I"ll wait till someone finishes it. It's not a very long book.
When I first came onto this site, I wanted to discuss directly with those who were involved in the infamous television debate that RRS was involved in about the existence of God with Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron. They didn't have time and the other non-believers I came across were too opinionated to involve themselves in a conversation that made any progress. Instead I got into other debates which for the most part were a lot of fun, but I digress.
Becky mentions this debate as well in her book at the end. This is for all of you on here I've talked to who would not believe me or had other personal issues with the fact that my opinion didn't flow with their idea of a Christian. I will breifly say that I hold her viewpoint when she says that if she was at that debate, she would have "crawled out of that church in shame. "
Simply put, we both agree that both sides put forth deplorable excuses for their side and did not defend their side succesfully. I know I know, many of you will disagree and say that RRS did disprove the existance of God in that debate, but enough with the opinions, I'm saying the other side did just as good of a job proving God. This debate is a poor excuse to not follow Christ and this book talks about those types of Christians.
This book should clarify many misunderstandings of how True Christians are and I hope bring light to a new understanding of our following.
It is written differently than most books, but is an informational peice and uses a lot of researched information. It does focus on the "New Atheists" and is not a book preaching to the masses. As said, it is from the point of view of a True Christian.
enjoy, let me know your thoughts. I would also request, please be respectful in your responses. I'm here to have mature discussions with people.
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Offline You know what I love about this thread? I jumped in just long enough to explain the fundamental necessity of science, logic, and empiricism, and did so in thorough fashion. Curiously, I'm the only poster whose contribution has been completely avoided by the OP. Funny, that...
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
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Offline It's nice to see that the ad hominem attack is still standard issue for Christians these days. Predictability is one of the hallmarks of religious expression, I suppose. Unfortunately for you, your emotional outburst was premature. I used to believe in a god, but I was not raised to believe in the Christian idea of god, which is the general assumption made about atheists by Christians like you. It is is also unfortunate that even your idea of atheism centers around Christianity, as if we endorsed every other religion and philosophy other than yours, and that by leaving you out you are somehow hurt by this. I'm glad that the dismissive tone of my post ruffled your feathers and revealed the true nature hidden beneath your seemingly-magnanimous veneer.
HUH????? Ok, Let me level.. First, I'm sorry if I said or came across as one who assumed you being against just Christians. If you follow the topics of this forum you'll notice that I've been talking generally of a spiritual world and not of YHWH.
I am sorry if I said that or came across that way. That was not my intention.
As far as ruffling my feathers. In my head my response was just informative, not argumentative or accusing. Again, I'm sorry if that's how you percieved my response.
You also whined.
Actually, I said it with a shrug
Another interesting tactic, but one that will not pass muster. You never just suggested the book, but you asked for others to share their thoughts. You have attempted to obfuscate long enough. There isn't one book written in the entire history of written books that can prove the existence of a god or gods, and none that can sway the rational among us into believing otherwise. So what would be the point of discussing this 'new' book by Garrrison? One of the more obvious behaviors for those who feel guilty about believing in a god and participating in a religion is the contrived way they attempt to defend their beliefs, in this case using another person's book as a prop, when all the while they just want to hear the reasons for not believing again. They want to make sure they heard it right the first time, because it makes so much sense they can't believe that it has crushed their previously-held false beliefs so quickly and so thoroughly. It also explains the ad hominem attacks that absolutely must be perpetrated no matter what, because that's what happens when children or the adult immature realize that what they have been told is right, but do not want to admit it. Let it go Caposkia. Eschew your willful ignorance. We will gladly welcome you into the fold when you find the strength to leave the lies behind.
...uhuh... Haven't followed much on here have you.
Someone once opined that "All sportswriters are hacks." I tend to view religious apologists in the same light; in the end, all of their intellectualism belies the physical reality. Comfort does not mean you don't have to think. Comfort means freedom to think and live rationally because there is no pain and suffering from the false dichotomies of religious indoctrination and oppression.
Ah, ok... so you hold the stereotypical understanding I am not a part of. Start reading some stuff on here and other blogs I have, then we'll talk.
Let me know when you want to be serious
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Ah. Thanks for the clarification, Cap.
Do you consider this true for all organisms (there's not enough evidence to link them to the fossils deemed to be their ancestors by paleontologists)? Or mostly just humans?
"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers
You don't? I am asking you who would be considered a True Xian that I would know.
Did you or did you not claim to know what a True Xian was? Come on, man, you are being disingenuous. You are on the ropes and its obvious.
As far as your science v. religion (didn't you say you couldn't stand religion?), maybe you should learn science first and then show us how you know ANYTHING about the "spiritual" world.
Anyhow, I must agree: you are a True Xian. You are truly disingenuous and intentionally obtuse.
"All I did was recommend a book! Poor me! I'm another Xian being oppressed just like Jesus! Waaaaahhhhh!"
PLeeze! You added commentary about who is a True Xian, and commented on the quality of argument in a debate. You made specific claims and now you are being pwned. Bitch slapped. You are being skooled but you keep thinking you have it all figured out because you follow a silly mythology.
God damn it, I hate people like you and everyone else who claims to be Xian and then can't even reason their way out of a wet bible, or even know the basic history of their religion or favorite book. I bet Cap doesn't even know one Greek or Hebrew word - and yet he believes God-Almighty Himself came down to Earth and wrote a book just for Cap and his salvation! But he couldn't be bothered to learn a god-damned thing about it. He's just shooting off his mouth like a majority of self-righteous, ignorant religious idiots. Making up their own religion and then declaring it "True".
Cap, we know you by what you are writing. You are an idiot and under 20 years old - it's obvious.
Cap, grow up, wake up and act smarter, even if you aren't.
Imagine the people who believe such things and who are not ashamed to ignore, totally, all the patient findings of thinking minds through all the centuries since the Bible was written. And it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated, the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us, who would make themselves the guides and leaders of us all; who would force their feeble and childish beliefs on us; who would invade our schools and libraries and homes. I personally resent it bitterly.
Isaac Asimov
Your god is not real, it is a made up myth you bought into, just like Muslims buy the myth of Allah, just like the ancient Egyptians falsely believed that the sun was a thinking entity. You think somehow you magically escaped the human flaw of buying fiction as fact when the rest of human history has not.
Bullcrap, the central figure of your book of myth is an authoritarian who doesn't like dissent and those who refuse to follow will be tortured for eternity. Fortunatly for me it is a book of fiction, unfortunately for you you buy this book of myth and then dodge the nasty parts because you don't want to see the book for what it is.
BTW you are right, it never ceases to suprise me the arrogance, nastyness and cruelty that humanity has inflicted on outsiders in the name of their diety(incert label here).
You have bought into ancient tribalism based on myth. I only hope someday you are brave enough to see that and live life in reality.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
It's nice to see that the ad hominem attack is still standard issue for Christians these days. Predictability is one of the hallmarks of religious expression, I suppose. Unfortunately for you, your emotional outburst was premature. I used to believe in a god, but I was not raised to believe in the Christian idea of god, which is the general assumption made about atheists by Christians like you. It is is also unfortunate that even your idea of atheism centers around Christianity, as if we endorsed every other religion and philosophy other than yours, and that by leaving you out you are somehow hurt by this. I'm glad that the dismissive tone of my post ruffled your feathers and revealed the true nature hidden beneath your seemingly-magnanimous veneer.
You also whined:
"BTW, all I suggested was a book. All I've done on here is answered some questions, and asked some of my own to better answer questions that were asked still unanswered mind you... and you blame me for the nonsense that's been going on???"
Another interesting tactic, but one that will not pass muster. You never just suggested the book, but you asked for others to share their thoughts. You have attempted to obfuscate long enough. There isn't one book written in the entire history of written books that can prove the existence of a god or gods, and none that can sway the rational among us into believing otherwise. So what would be the point of discussing this 'new' book by Garrrison? One of the more obvious behaviors for those who feel guilty about believing in a god and participating in a religion is the contrived way they attempt to defend their beliefs, in this case using another person's book as a prop, when all the while they just want to hear the reasons for not believing again. They want to make sure they heard it right the first time, because it makes so much sense they can't believe that it has crushed their previously-held false beliefs so quickly and so thoroughly. It also explains the ad hominem attacks that absolutely must be perpetrated no matter what, because that's what happens when children or the adult immature realize that what they have been told is right, but do not want to admit it. Let it go Caposkia. Eschew your willful ignorance. We will gladly welcome you into the fold when you find the strength to leave the lies behind.
Someone once opined that "All sportswriters are hacks." I tend to view religious apologists in the same light; in the end, all of their intellectualism belies the physical reality. Comfort does not mean you don't have to think. Comfort means freedom to think and live rationally because there is no pain and suffering from the false dichotomies of religious indoctrination and oppression.
I have little poignant or anecdotal to share in this space, but I'm glad I wrote something that made someone like you waste their time reading it. HAVE SOME.
So, in your opinion, there is not:
A) Enough evidence to support the notion that humans are an evolutionary branch of primates
B) To use one of the most well-documented and complete records as an example, enough evidence to support the notion that elephants are an evolutionary branch of equidae (horses)
...Is that correct?
So, like, if we showed you this evidence in this forum, would you be willing to change your mind? Or are we just beating our heads against a brick wall?
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
Okay, AGAIN, fuck all you idol worshipers, I am god, you are god, so FUCK YOU idol worshipers, all of you. My way or the highway to hell, you fucking loons, all you religious retarded fucks. All religion is the highway to hell .... Laughing at you idol worshipers,
AC/DC - Highway To Hell (with Bon Scott)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsDpznl8eIs
What ever , FUCK YOU , all you idol worshipers , YOU SUCK, YOU LIE. Fuck you.
Atheism Books.
Sorry, I've clarified that on other forums, I don't remember who read them or not.
I can't account for all organisms because I haven't studied all organisms, however, many of which I've seen do not evolve into a completely new species in our categorization. At least the ones I've seen so far. They may evolve into another named species in that class, e.g. the tiger is a distant relative of the Lion or vise versa. They're both however still Cats.
why should i learn something I already know about? I just don't bring it up because it's a stalemate conversation with most people on here. See science VS. religion. Btw, it's just a title.
are we throwing a hissy fit? I have yet to see how I've been pwned.
I just wasn't as familiar with the term. I'm assuming you mean true follower of Christ or God? You forget I guess that I was not taught by a church or denomination. Therefore, terms in reference to Christians sometimes get by me.
What do you want to know? Judging by everything you've said above, it's obvious to me you haven't followed this forum at all and therefore are ignorant of even why you're here, let alone what you're hating me about.
What exactly did you want me to "reason my way out of"???
yea, wrong. There's a reason why I haven't gone far with many questions and topics. One is because I already know the response I might get, therefore, I'm trying to find a better way of leveling with the people asking so as they can understand my belief and following. (Not necessarily accept it like many people assume from that response) Do you want to be one of the few that gives me a strait answer?
Reread your post, then ask yourself who seemed more mature.
Your god is not real, it is a made up myth you bought into, just like Muslims buy the myth of Allah, just like the ancient Egyptians falsely believed that the sun was a thinking entity. You think somehow you magically escaped the human flaw of buying fiction as fact when the rest of human history has not.
Great! finally, someone has a credible source that has disproved the spiritual world. Please share so we can make progress in our conversations!
Or I read it thoroughly and see what it's actually saying. I have thoroughly questioned everything I didn't know and still question what I don't know. I have asked conflicting experts their views and have come to my own conclusions through means of research and credible claims.
it's why I hate religion.
I have never seen life more real than now. Again, this whole post was complete opinion with no basis for conclusion. I can say all the same about your "belief" due to what i understand to be true, but that's not why I'm here. I'm not here to make enemies or separate myself from you.
I don't think I'm better than you or smarter than you. I just believe I understand differently than you and I'm more than willing to talk with people who have conflicting beliefs. This way I can assure what I know is true.
I still believe to this day because conversations on here and likewise in other places have only assured my understanding. Mainly because of lack of credible information to the contrary, but also because of personality or reaction.